Robert,
Let’s try to avoid personal attacks please, and keep discussion here civil. Mike Denny is a longtime activist and committed to the freedom cause, and I’ve never known him to promote coercive laws. We may not all see eye-to-eye on everything, but a little goodwill and respect goes a long way toward minimizing counter-productive infighting.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
···
On May 28, 2023, at 12:35 PM, robert goodwyn via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:
robert_goodwyn https://forum.lpsf.org/u/robert_goodwyn
May 28
Look upon me, St. Mike, I don’t have a right to life.I have a right to be free from aggression and fraud. That covers all the living to which I’m entitled.
Sorry, but I’m pretty sure that you are lying whey you boast about seeing all human life as sacred. We look at the policies you would be supporting if you really believed that. You would not only promote every coercive law to maximize the quantity of human lives, but you would also voluntarily give away all your own wealth to that end.
No Mike, I think you are a fake. You are fine with all kinds of killing and death. You just sought out the expedient exception.
Here is the basic morality of the abortion issue: being conceived and carried are gifts to which you are not entitled. If you die from being deprived of them, it is sad, but it is not murder.
They are gifts, and there is absolutely nothing generous about you forcing someone else to give those gifts. It only makes you a thief.
I would be happy enough with you if you would strip away the sophistry and be honest about your position. Tell the truth, St. Mike.
The truth is that you seek to coerce women to carry pregnancies to term. That’s your position. Say it.
Bob
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Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/survey-on-philosophical-positions-in-the-libertarian-movement/21825/18 or reply to this email to respond.In Reply To
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
May 27
That’s a very good point, Jeff. Thank you for bringing it up. I still think the Libertarian Party keeping info about people’s political/philosophical beliefs on file and up to date for paid staffers and people with roles setting party policy is desirable from the standpoint of maintaining the party …
Previous Repliesdennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
May 28
Human life is especially sacred. It is a gift from God we should respect and be grateful from the moment of conception until natural death. To see it in any other way is to treat the sacred as profane. And that is a shame for those who miss the incredible wonder and joy in the miracle of human life.Mike
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Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
May 28
P.S. – I do think the history of eugenics that Mike raises is good to know about – one of a number of dark sides to the historical progressive movement that shares a commonality with the ideology of modern progressives in terms of its willingness to override individual freedom and choice in the name of the “common good”.Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
May 28
By the way, thanks for weighing in Katie. I don’t recall seeing you here before – are you new to the LPSF or other libertarian lists? Do you live in San Francisco? I’m curious to hear your background in the movement or how you heard about us or came to libertarian ideas, if you don’t mind sharing. And please consider yourself invited to attend (in person or remotely) our next meeting if you can make it. Please feel free to call me directly if you have questions or concerns, or just to say hi!Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
Chair, Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 573-7997··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/survey-on-philosophical-positions-in-the-libertarian-movement/21825/15
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
May 28
To me, the term pro-life applies well to ending the unnecessary mass slaughter of animals kept in horrible factory farming conditions, as well as to seeking to prevent government wars, democides, and genocides.Although my views on abortion have shifted a couple times, I’m now pretty firmly in the pro-choice camp (sorry Mike). In the case of fetuses (feti?), I don’t think they merit our protection simply as a consequence of being biologically alive. If preserving all independently living human matter were the correct stance, then we would need to embrace in seriousness the view satirically proclaimed by Monty Python, “Every sperm is sacred”:
Every Sperm is Sacred - Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
In the political (as opposed to biological) realm, I see disapproval of abortion as part of a larger pattern of sex-negative bias that also manifests in opposition to a whole range of things including masturbation, pornography, prostitution, homosexuality, promiscuity (allowing as they do the enjoyment of sexuality for pleasure rather than procreation) and yes even nudity.Speaking of which, thanks Marty for the heads-up on the SF World Nude Bike Ride happening June 11. I’ve put it on my calendar and hope to attend this year. (You don’t have to go nude to attend and support!) I just wish you would promote your cause without so many gratuitous digs at other libertarians.
Euthanasia, also known as death with dignity, seems to me in keeping with a pro-life appreciation of our time on this mortal coil. As a oenophile Mike, you don’t feel compelled to finish drinking every bottle of wine that’s gone bad, right?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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robert_goodwyn https://forum.lpsf.org/u/robert_goodwyn
May 28
Interesting: all I’m asking is to accurately define the question, and that’s a problem for you.··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/survey-on-philosophical-positions-in-the-libertarian-movement/21825/13
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