CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,I’ll try a different format.
All right, fine by me Chris. If interspersing my responses with yours makes it easier for you to read them, consider it done.
Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
-great. no one under 40 know who they are and they are such Libertarians that they don’t go to LPSF meetings because it’s a waste of their time.
They don’t go to LPSF meetings because they don’t live in San Francisco anymore. (Although Marcy is fairly elderly and may be more or less retired from politics at this point.)
You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out.
-I want you to quit the LP and register as a Democrat.
That’s not going to happen. Even if all the libertarians like myself who care about civil liberties and appealing to people on both sides of the conventional political divide were driven out of the party, all that would ultimately happen is that the LP would lose its unique advantage in American politics and become another marginalized, right-wing party like the Constitution Party. Is that what you want?
You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end?
-there were 5 people at the last LPSF meeting. 1 is running for president, 1 lives in DC, 2 are you and me and 1 was someone who said they’re more interested in their faith but wanted to show up to see Mike ter Maat. there’s 3000+ registered Libertarians in SF yet none of them go to meetings. Why register then?
Why are you asking me? I do go to meetings. Do you honestly think I’m the reason all those other registered Libertarians don’t go to meetings? If so, I’m sorry, but I think that’s absurd and you don’t have a clue.
So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
-wtf? the democrats are funding the war in Ukraine. wtf?
The funding of the war in Ukraine has very, very little to do with local politics here in San Francisco. But to the extent SF Democrats have views or influence on that, I think you’ll find the “moderates” generally more keen to send military aid to the Ukrainian government than the “progressives” who are more likely to consistently oppose U.S. government militarism.
You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?
-tu quoque fallacy. i don’t think that any Libertarian should endorse other parties, republican or democrat or green or whatever.
So does that mean you can’t work with him, want him to re-register as a Republican, etc.? Have you spoken out about it? Or do you have a double standard when it comes to support for Republicans, or criticizing darlings of the Mises Caucus?
i don’t know why you brought up dave smith as being verbose.
I didn’t call him verbose. I brought him up to see how you feel about him because you called me verbose, and I suspect he talks a lot more than I do!
he’s a comedian.
Yes, he uses humor. So does Vermin Supreme.
you’re verbose because you add unnecessary discussion to any topic so that nothing ever gets done.
Do you realize that the public’s clamor to “do something!, do something!” any time there’s a perceived need or crisis has a lot to do with the growth of government? Politicians hear that kind of impatience from the public, and respond by doing something – usually something bad – to make it look like they are being active and not just sitting around talking. Historically this desire for action contributed to the rise of fascism. Impatience in politics is generally not our friend.
for example, you wrote a great letter to appeal to Libertarians. have you posted it anywhere? no, it was pure virtue signaling.
Writing the letter was in fact doing something, not just discussing. Saying I wrote it to engage in “virtue signaling” while at the same time criticizing me for not sharing it more is self-contradictory and makes no sense.
The letter wasn’t written to be posted online, but to be sent as outreach to registered Libertarians. We haven’t sent it out yet because part of the idea was to use it to invite people to a social, which has not been scheduled.
I post plenty of other pro-freedom stuff online to an audience of both libertarians and non-libertarians. Do you?
I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
-i understand what your saying. i don’t believe that you are a Libertarian. i believe you’ve taken the LP as a marketing ploy for your persona. i’ll ask you a serious question:How are you different from Vermin Supreme? because i don’t see a difference.
Your premise here appears to be that Vermin Supreme isn’t helping the cause of freedom. That’s an unsupported premise with which I strongly disagree. He has brought new people into the movement, raised money for the LP, etc. He could do even more for us if more Libertarians had the imagination and open-mindedness to see how his satire and performance art can attract new folks we wouldn’t reach otherwise, and advance the libertarian cause. But their lack of vision is not his fault.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
···
On Dec 8, 2022, at 6:30 AM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:
Chris Mendes
Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/5 or reply to this email to respond.
In Reply To
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
Chris, Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists. You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out. You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats)…
Previous RepliesStarchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
Chris,Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out. You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end? So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?
I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/4
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,It is absolutely my position to not support any Democrat. I posted this for an understanding of the zeitgeist. I don’t know who Aubrey is, nor Marcy. You don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s my point. You are the problem.
Chris Mendes
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
“Progressive parroting”, Chris? Yeah, right. Who is this other Starchild you are talking about? I’ve never met them.I’m guessing you are unaware that the LPSF has recommended voting for Joel Engardio in the past. (And guess who “discovered” him and invited him to speak to our group?) Aubrey (who put in the most hours), Marcy, and I, possibly one or two others, actively volunteered walking precincts for him. I didn’t this time, because since then he has sadly gotten more in bed with the SFPD (aka "authoritarians who want more control”). Even if I expect he’ll be worse than most of the board on police issues however, he’ll likely be the best of them on many other issues, and I think a respectable argument could have been made for our recommending a vote for him over progressive Gordon Mar. I’m glad he got elected, and think it will be mostly good for liberty on balance.
But of course Joel is a Democrat, not a Libertarian. Is it your position this week that it’s okay for us to support Democrats after all?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/2
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 7
As we’ve seen, the progressives in SF are basically authoritarians who want more control. Parroting their ineffective slogans will just push the LPSF into more of an irrrelevant position. As I’ve tried this past year to attract more moderate people to the LPSF, please read this article about the zeitgeist in SF. Notice who his supporters are? Yep. You can see just like me. The LPSF needs diversity and the way to achieve it is through moderate policies, not the progressive parroting that Starchild advocates.FTA: “I just tapped into a resource that’s always been there but was awakened by the school board recall.”
SFGATE – 7 Dec 22 https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
San Francisco’s moderate revolt continues with Engardio victory https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
San Francisco Supervisor-elect Joel Engardio painted his opponent, District 4 Supervisor…Chris Mendes
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