Moderate vs Progressive

As we’ve seen, the progressives in SF are basically authoritarians who want more control. Parroting their ineffective slogans will just push the LPSF into more of an irrrelevant position. As I’ve tried this past year to attract more moderate people to the LPSF, please read this article about the zeitgeist in SF. Notice who his supporters are? Yep. You can see just like me. The LPSF needs diversity and the way to achieve it is through moderate policies, not the progressive parroting that Starchild advocates.

FTA: “I just tapped into a resource that’s always been there but was awakened by the school board recall.”

Chris Mendes

“Progressive parroting”, Chris? Yeah, right. Who is this other Starchild you are talking about? I’ve never met them.

I’m guessing you are unaware that the LPSF has recommended voting for Joel Engardio in the past. (And guess who “discovered” him and invited him to speak to our group?) Aubrey (who put in the most hours), Marcy, and I, possibly one or two others, actively volunteered walking precincts for him. I didn’t this time, because since then he has sadly gotten more in bed with the SFPD (aka "authoritarians who want more control”). Even if I expect he’ll be worse than most of the board on police issues however, he’ll likely be the best of them on many other issues, and I think a respectable argument could have been made for our recommending a vote for him over progressive Gordon Mar. I’m glad he got elected, and think it will be mostly good for liberty on balance.

But of course Joel is a Democrat, not a Libertarian. Is it your position this week that it’s okay for us to support Democrats after all?

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:49 AM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 7
As we’ve seen, the progressives in SF are basically authoritarians who want more control. Parroting their ineffective slogans will just push the LPSF into more of an irrrelevant position. As I’ve tried this past year to attract more moderate people to the LPSF, please read this article about the zeitgeist in SF. Notice who his supporters are? Yep. You can see just like me. The LPSF needs diversity and the way to achieve it is through moderate policies, not the progressive parroting that Starchild advocates.

SFGATE – 7 Dec 22 https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

San Francisco’s moderate revolt continues with Engardio victory https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
San Francisco Supervisor-elect Joel Engardio painted his opponent, District 4 Supervisor…

Chris Mendes

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Hi Starchild,

It is absolutely my position to not support any Democrat. I posted this for an understanding of the zeitgeist. I don’t know who Aubrey is, nor Marcy. You don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s my point. You are the problem.

Chris Mendes

Chris,

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out. You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end? So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:18 PM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,

It is absolutely my position to not support any Democrat. I posted this for an understanding of the zeitgeist. I don’t know who Aubrey is, nor Marcy. You don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s my point. You are the problem.

Chris Mendes

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/3 or reply to this email to respond.

Previous Replies

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
“Progressive parroting”, Chris? Yeah, right. Who is this other Starchild you are talking about? I’ve never met them.

I’m guessing you are unaware that the LPSF has recommended voting for Joel Engardio in the past. (And guess who “discovered” him and invited him to speak to our group?) Aubrey (who put in the most hours), Marcy, and I, possibly one or two others, actively volunteered walking precincts for him. I didn’t this time, because since then he has sadly gotten more in bed with the SFPD (aka "authoritarians who want more control”). Even if I expect he’ll be worse than most of the board on police issues however, he’ll likely be the best of them on many other issues, and I think a respectable argument could have been made for our recommending a vote for him over progressive Gordon Mar. I’m glad he got elected, and think it will be mostly good for liberty on balance.

But of course Joel is a Democrat, not a Libertarian. Is it your position this week that it’s okay for us to support Democrats after all?

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/2
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 7
As we’ve seen, the progressives in SF are basically authoritarians who want more control. Parroting their ineffective slogans will just push the LPSF into more of an irrrelevant position. As I’ve tried this past year to attract more moderate people to the LPSF, please read this article about the zeitgeist in SF. Notice who his supporters are? Yep. You can see just like me. The LPSF needs diversity and the way to achieve it is through moderate policies, not the progressive parroting that Starchild advocates.

FTA: “I just tapped into a resource that’s always been there but was awakened by the school board recall.”

SFGATE – 7 Dec 22 https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

San Francisco’s moderate revolt continues with Engardio victory https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
San Francisco Supervisor-elect Joel Engardio painted his opponent, District 4 Supervisor…

Chris Mendes

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1 Like

Hi Starchild,

I’ll try a different format.

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
-great. no one under 40 know who they are and they are such Libertarians that they don’t go to LPSF meetings because it’s a waste of their time.

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out.
-I want you to quit the LP and register as a Democrat.

You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end?
-there were 5 people at the last LPSF meeting. 1 is running for president, 1 lives in DC, 2 are you and me and 1 was someone who said they’re more interested in their faith but wanted to show up to see Mike ter Maat. there’s 3000+ registered Libertarians in SF yet none of them go to meetings. Why register then?

So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
-wtf? the democrats are funding the war in Ukraine. wtf?

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?
-tu quoque fallacy. i don’t think that any Libertarian should endorse other parties, republican or democrat or green or whatever. i don’t know why you brought up dave smith as being verbose. he’s a comedian. you’re verbose because you add unnecessary discussion to any topic so that nothing ever gets done. for example, you wrote a great letter to appeal to Libertarians. have you posted it anywhere? no, it was pure virtue signaling.

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
-i understand what your saying. i don’t believe that you are a Libertarian. i believe you’ve taken the LP as a marketing ploy for your persona. i’ll ask you a serious question:

How are you different from Vermin Supreme? because i don’t see a difference.

Chris Mendes

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,

I’ll try a different format.

All right, fine by me Chris. If interspersing my responses with yours makes it easier for you to read them, consider it done.

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
-great. no one under 40 know who they are and they are such Libertarians that they don’t go to LPSF meetings because it’s a waste of their time.

They don’t go to LPSF meetings because they don’t live in San Francisco anymore. (Although Marcy is fairly elderly and may be more or less retired from politics at this point.)

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out.
-I want you to quit the LP and register as a Democrat.

That’s not going to happen. Even if all the libertarians like myself who care about civil liberties and appealing to people on both sides of the conventional political divide were driven out of the party, all that would ultimately happen is that the LP would lose its unique advantage in American politics and become another marginalized, right-wing party like the Constitution Party. Is that what you want?

You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end?
-there were 5 people at the last LPSF meeting. 1 is running for president, 1 lives in DC, 2 are you and me and 1 was someone who said they’re more interested in their faith but wanted to show up to see Mike ter Maat. there’s 3000+ registered Libertarians in SF yet none of them go to meetings. Why register then?

Why are you asking me? I do go to meetings. Do you honestly think I’m the reason all those other registered Libertarians don’t go to meetings? If so, I’m sorry, but I think that’s absurd and you don’t have a clue.

So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
-wtf? the democrats are funding the war in Ukraine. wtf?

The funding of the war in Ukraine has very, very little to do with local politics here in San Francisco. But to the extent SF Democrats have views or influence on that, I think you’ll find the “moderates” generally more keen to send military aid to the Ukrainian government than the “progressives” who are more likely to consistently oppose U.S. government militarism.

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?

-tu quoque fallacy. i don’t think that any Libertarian should endorse other parties, republican or democrat or green or whatever.

So does that mean you can’t work with him, want him to re-register as a Republican, etc.? Have you spoken out about it? Or do you have a double standard when it comes to support for Republicans, or criticizing darlings of the Mises Caucus?

i don’t know why you brought up dave smith as being verbose.

I didn’t call him verbose. I brought him up to see how you feel about him because you called me verbose, and I suspect he talks a lot more than I do!

he’s a comedian.

Yes, he uses humor. So does Vermin Supreme.

you’re verbose because you add unnecessary discussion to any topic so that nothing ever gets done.

Do you realize that the public’s clamor to “do something!, do something!” any time there’s a perceived need or crisis has a lot to do with the growth of government? Politicians hear that kind of impatience from the public, and respond by doing something – usually something bad – to make it look like they are being active and not just sitting around talking. Historically this desire for action contributed to the rise of fascism. Impatience in politics is generally not our friend.

for example, you wrote a great letter to appeal to Libertarians. have you posted it anywhere? no, it was pure virtue signaling.

Writing the letter was in fact doing something, not just discussing. Saying I wrote it to engage in “virtue signaling” while at the same time criticizing me for not sharing it more is self-contradictory and makes no sense.

The letter wasn’t written to be posted online, but to be sent as outreach to registered Libertarians. We haven’t sent it out yet because part of the idea was to use it to invite people to a social, which has not been scheduled.

I post plenty of other pro-freedom stuff online to an audience of both libertarians and non-libertarians. Do you?

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
-i understand what your saying. i don’t believe that you are a Libertarian. i believe you’ve taken the LP as a marketing ploy for your persona. i’ll ask you a serious question:

How are you different from Vermin Supreme? because i don’t see a difference.

Your premise here appears to be that Vermin Supreme isn’t helping the cause of freedom. That’s an unsupported premise with which I strongly disagree. He has brought new people into the movement, raised money for the LP, etc. He could do even more for us if more Libertarians had the imagination and open-mindedness to see how his satire and performance art can attract new folks we wouldn’t reach otherwise, and advance the libertarian cause. But their lack of vision is not his fault.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Dec 8, 2022, at 6:30 AM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

Chris Mendes

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/5 or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
Chris, Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists. You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out. You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats)…
Previous Replies

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
Chris,

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out. You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end? So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/4
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,

It is absolutely my position to not support any Democrat. I posted this for an understanding of the zeitgeist. I don’t know who Aubrey is, nor Marcy. You don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s my point. You are the problem.

Chris Mendes

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
“Progressive parroting”, Chris? Yeah, right. Who is this other Starchild you are talking about? I’ve never met them.

I’m guessing you are unaware that the LPSF has recommended voting for Joel Engardio in the past. (And guess who “discovered” him and invited him to speak to our group?) Aubrey (who put in the most hours), Marcy, and I, possibly one or two others, actively volunteered walking precincts for him. I didn’t this time, because since then he has sadly gotten more in bed with the SFPD (aka "authoritarians who want more control”). Even if I expect he’ll be worse than most of the board on police issues however, he’ll likely be the best of them on many other issues, and I think a respectable argument could have been made for our recommending a vote for him over progressive Gordon Mar. I’m glad he got elected, and think it will be mostly good for liberty on balance.

But of course Joel is a Democrat, not a Libertarian. Is it your position this week that it’s okay for us to support Democrats after all?

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/2
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 7
As we’ve seen, the progressives in SF are basically authoritarians who want more control. Parroting their ineffective slogans will just push the LPSF into more of an irrrelevant position. As I’ve tried this past year to attract more moderate people to the LPSF, please read this article about the zeitgeist in SF. Notice who his supporters are? Yep. You can see just like me. The LPSF needs diversity and the way to achieve it is through moderate policies, not the progressive parroting that Starchild advocates.

FTA: “I just tapped into a resource that’s always been there but was awakened by the school board recall.”

SFGATE – 7 Dec 22 https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

San Francisco’s moderate revolt continues with Engardio victory https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/sf-joel-engardio-discusses-priorities-17635022.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
San Francisco Supervisor-elect Joel Engardio painted his opponent, District 4 Supervisor…

Chris Mendes

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1 Like

Chris,

I’ve known Starchild for a few years now and I can say without hesitation that he is one of the most devoted, thoughtful, and effective freedom advocates I’ve ever had the pleasure of getting to know. If you think he is not “libertarian” in every rationally conceivable sense of the word, then I recommend you search for a deeper understanding of libertarianism yourself. From there, you can evaluate whether you are truly as uncomfortable being associated with libertarians as your recent messages seem to suggest.

My two cents.

Greg

1 Like

Thank you Greg….agreed.

And for you Chris.

The Libertarian party was dead after many of our former leaders moved en-mass to Georgia in an early version of the “free-state movement” early 1990’s. Starchild single-handedly revived the party after years of dormancy. He is a tireless campaigner and advocate for Liberty. As a traditional Catholic I’m sympathetic to your feeling self-conscious around Starchild’s unconventional personal behavior and concerned about how it might reflect on us as a party with a certain demographic. But when it comes to reflecting and advocating for Liberty, he is right more often than not in my view. And he has probably gotten more votes and more name recognition than any other Libertarian in San Francisco. You might not like it, but P.T. Barnum said, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity,” which is almost as good as Oscar Wilde’s version, who put it like this: “There’s only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

Every person and organization comes with a past. Anyone who wants to lead the LPSF must understand and accept who we are. And be willing to work with what it is in its current form to move it forward. We are a small organization working with volunteers. While we welcome new people interested in us, a leader will have to accept who we are and work with it.

I’m not able to be more than an advisor now after being an LP activist since 1980. This is the best advice I can offer. Take it or leave it.

Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco www.LPSF.orghttp://www.lpsf.org/
No On Prop A www.badsfbonds.blogspot.comhttp://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/
www.DennyForMayor.comhttp://www.dennyformayor.com/ - 2002-2003
(415) 608-0269
mike@Dennz.commailto:mike@Dennz.com

···

From: Gregory Michael via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2022 8:23 PM
To: mike@dennz.com
Subject: Re: [LPSF Forum] [Discussion] Moderate vs Progressive

[https://forum.lpsf.org/user_avatar/forum.lpsf.org/greg/45/621_2.png]
greghttps://forum.lpsf.org/u/greg
December 9

Chris,

I’ve known Starchild for a few years now and I can say without hesitation that he is one of the most devoted, thoughtful, and effective freedom advocates I’ve ever had the pleasure of getting to know. If you think he is not “libertarian” in every rationally conceivable sense of the word, then I recommend you search for a deeper understanding of libertarianism yourself. From there, you can evaluate whether you are truly as uncomfortable being associated with libertarians as your recent messages seem to suggest.

My two cents.

Greg


Visit Topichttps://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/7 or reply to this email to respond.

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I can tell all of you that Starchild is unorganized and doesn’t care about the Libertarian Party. He cares about the liberty movement.

Chris Mendes

That may be Chris….what does it have to do with the discussion at hand about LPSF organizational cooperation, management and leadership?

Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco www.LPSF.orghttp://www.lpsf.org/
No On Prop A www.badsfbonds.blogspot.comhttp://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/
www.DennyForMayor.comhttp://www.dennyformayor.com/ - 2002-2003
(415) 608-0269
mike@Dennz.commailto:mike@Dennz.com

···

From: CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2022 12:03 PM
To: mike@dennz.com
Subject: [LPSF Forum] [Discussion] Moderate vs Progressive

[https://forum.lpsf.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/d07c76/45.png]
CDMendeshttps://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 10

I can tell all of you that Starchild is unorganized and doesn’t care about the Libertarian Party. He cares about the liberty movement.

YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/embed/5fwAs96KHZc?autoplay=1&feature=oembed&wmode=opaque

Chris Mendes


Visit Topichttps://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/9 or reply to this email to respond.

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Chris,

I appreciate you including the link to my video interview with Adam Kokesh, because if you watch the whole video, I think I clearly explain that I do support the Libertarian Party, but that the movement – the ideas of freedom, not any particular institution – is ultimately what deserve our allegiance and support.

Did you come to our meeting today? Did anyone else? I’m in the room at the library, did get here a bit late, but haven’t seen anyone else either in person or joining us online.

As for being unorganized, I’ll plead partially guilty to that. :slight_smile:

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Dec 10, 2022, at 4:30 PM, mike@dennz.com via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 11
That may be Chris….what does it have to do with the discussion at hand about LPSF organizational cooperation, management and leadership?

Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco www.LPSF.org http://www.lpsf.org/http://www.lpsf.org/ http://www.lpsf.org/
No On Prop A www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/ http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/
www.DennyForMayor.com http://www.dennyformayor.com/http://www.dennyformayor.com/ http://www.dennyformayor.com/ - 2002-2003
(415) 608-0269
mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.commailto:mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.com··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/10
Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/10 or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 10
Thank you Greg….agreed. And for you Chris. The Libertarian party was dead after many of our former leaders moved en-mass to Georgia in an early version of the “free-state movement” early 1990’s. Starchild single-handedly revived the party after years of dormancy. He is a tireless campaigner and ad…
Previous Replies

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 10
I can tell all of you that Starchild is unorganized and doesn’t care about the Libertarian Party. He cares about the liberty movement.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/embed/5fwAs96KHZc?autoplay=1&feature=oembed&wmode=opaque
Chris Mendes

dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 10
Thank you Greg….agreed.

And for you Chris.

The Libertarian party was dead after many of our former leaders moved en-mass to Georgia in an early version of the “free-state movement” early 1990’s. Starchild single-handedly revived the party after years of dormancy. He is a tireless campaigner and advocate for Liberty. As a traditional Catholic I’m sympathetic to your feeling self-conscious around Starchild’s unconventional personal behavior and concerned about how it might reflect on us as a party with a certain demographic. But when it comes to reflecting and advocating for Liberty, he is right more often than not in my view. And he has probably gotten more votes and more name recognition than any other Libertarian in San Francisco. You might not like it, but P.T. Barnum said, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity,” which is almost as good as Oscar Wilde’s version, who put it like this: “There’s only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

Every person and organization comes with a past. Anyone who wants to lead the LPSF must understand and accept who we are. And be willing to work with what it is in its current form to move it forward. We are a small organization working with volunteers. While we welcome new people interested in us, a leader will have to accept who we are and work with it.

I’m not able to be more than an advisor now after being an LP activist since 1980. This is the best advice I can offer. Take it or leave it.

Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco www.LPSF.org http://www.lpsf.org/http://www.lpsf.org/ http://www.lpsf.org/
No On Prop A www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/ http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/
www.DennyForMayor.com http://www.dennyformayor.com/http://www.dennyformayor.com/ http://www.dennyformayor.com/ - 2002-2003
(415) 608-0269
mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.commailto:mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.com··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/8
greg https://forum.lpsf.org/u/greg
December 9
Chris,

I’ve known Starchild for a few years now and I can say without hesitation that he is one of the most devoted, thoughtful, and effective freedom advocates I’ve ever had the pleasure of getting to know. If you think he is not “libertarian” in every rationally conceivable sense of the word, then I recommend you search for a deeper understanding of libertarianism yourself. From there, you can evaluate whether you are truly as uncomfortable being associated with libertarians as your recent messages seem to suggest.

My two cents.

Greg

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 8
CDMendes Libertarian Party of San Francisco https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,

I’ll try a different format.
All right, fine by me Chris. If interspersing my responses with yours makes it easier for you to read them, consider it done.

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
-great. no one under 40 know who they are and they are such Libertarians that they don’t go to LPSF meetings because it’s a waste of their time.
They don’t go to LPSF meetings because they don’t live in San Francisco anymore. (Although Marcy is fairly elderly and may be more or less retired from politics at this point.)

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out.
-I want you to quit the LP and register as a Democrat.
That’s not going to happen. Even if all the libertarians like myself who care about civil liberties and appealing to people on both sides of the conventional political divide were driven out of the party, all that would ultimately happen is that the LP would lose its unique advantage in American politics and become another marginalized, right-wing party like the Constitution Party. Is that what you want?

You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end?
-there were 5 people at the last LPSF meeting. 1 is running for president, 1 lives in DC, 2 are you and me and 1 was someone who said they’re more interested in their faith but wanted to show up to see Mike ter Maat. there’s 3000+ registered Libertarians in SF yet none of them go to meetings. Why register then?
Why are you asking me? I do go to meetings. Do you honestly think I’m the reason all those other registered Libertarians don’t go to meetings? If so, I’m sorry, but I think that’s absurd and you don’t have a clue.

So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
-wtf? the democrats are funding the war in Ukraine. wtf?
The funding of the war in Ukraine has very, very little to do with local politics here in San Francisco. But to the extent SF Democrats have views or influence on that, I think you’ll find the “moderates” generally more keen to send military aid to the Ukrainian government than the “progressives” who are more likely to consistently oppose U.S. government militarism.

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?

-tu quoque fallacy. i don’t think that any Libertarian should endorse other parties, republican or democrat or green or whatever.
So does that mean you can’t work with him, want him to re-register as a Republican, etc.? Have you spoken out about it? Or do you have a double standard when it comes to support for Republicans, or criticizing darlings of the Mises Caucus?

i don’t know why you brought up dave smith as being verbose.
I didn’t call him verbose. I brought him up to see how you feel about him because you called me verbose, and I suspect he talks a lot more than I do!

he’s a comedian.
Yes, he uses humor. So does Vermin Supreme.

you’re verbose because you add unnecessary discussion to any topic so that nothing ever gets done.
Do you realize that the public’s clamor to “do something!, do something!” any time there’s a perceived need or crisis has a lot to do with the growth of government? Politicians hear that kind of impatience from the public, and respond by doing something – usually something bad – to make it look like they are being active and not just sitting around talking. Historically this desire for action contributed to the rise of fascism. Impatience in politics is generally not our friend.

for example, you wrote a great letter to appeal to Libertarians. have you posted it anywhere? no, it was pure virtue signaling.
Writing the letter was in fact doing something, not just discussing. Saying I wrote it to engage in “virtue signaling” while at the same time criticizing me for not sharing it more is self-contradictory and makes no sense.

The letter wasn’t written to be posted online, but to be sent as outreach to registered Libertarians. We haven’t sent it out yet because part of the idea was to use it to invite people to a social, which has not been scheduled.

I post plenty of other pro-freedom stuff online to an audience of both libertarians and non-libertarians. Do you?

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
-i understand what your saying. i don’t believe that you are a Libertarian. i believe you’ve taken the LP as a marketing ploy for your persona. i’ll ask you a serious question:

How are you different from Vermin Supreme? because i don’t see a difference.
Your premise here appears to be that Vermin Supreme isn’t helping the cause of freedom. That’s an unsupported premise with which I strongly disagree. He has brought new people into the movement, raised money for the LP, etc. He could do even more for us if more Libertarians had the imagination and open-mindedness to see how his satire and performance art can attract new folks we wouldn’t reach otherwise, and advance the libertarian cause. But their lack of vision is not his fault.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/6
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 8
Hi Starchild,

I’ll try a different format.

Aubrey and Marcy are both former LPSF chairs and longtime activists.
-great. no one under 40 know who they are and they are such Libertarians that they don’t go to LPSF meetings because it’s a waste of their time.

You’re right, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please spell it out.
-I want you to quit the LP and register as a Democrat.

You want to enhance our “understanding” of the “zeitgeist” in which “moderates” in SF (read: more establishment as opposed to progressive Democrats) have made some recent gains, toward what end?
-there were 5 people at the last LPSF meeting. 1 is running for president, 1 lives in DC, 2 are you and me and 1 was someone who said they’re more interested in their faith but wanted to show up to see Mike ter Maat. there’s 3000+ registered Libertarians in SF yet none of them go to meetings. Why register then?

So that we can emulate their statist positions and water down our consistent adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle and defense of individual rights?
-wtf? the democrats are funding the war in Ukraine. wtf?

You say it’s your position not to support any Democrat. How about Republicans? What do you think of would-be LP presidential candidate Dave Smith recently endorsing a Republican for U.S. Senate in Arizona, in a race in which (unlike John Hamasaki’s non-partisan race) there WAS a Libertarian running, on the LP ticket? Is Dave Smith now someone you “can’t work with”? Or does his not wearing drag make him OK in your book? You don’t find his long podcast commentaries too “verbose”?
-tu quoque fallacy. i don’t think that any Libertarian should endorse other parties, republican or democrat or green or whatever. i don’t know why you brought up dave smith as being verbose. he’s a comedian. you’re verbose because you add unnecessary discussion to any topic so that nothing ever gets done. for example, you wrote a great letter to appeal to Libertarians. have you posted it anywhere? no, it was pure virtue signaling.

I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not either, because you apparently can’t be bothered to read more than a few short paragraphs at most. With that kind of self-imposed limitation, it seems to me that your chances of understanding the local zeitgeist (or understanding libertarian critiques of it, for that matter) are significantly diminished.
-i understand what your saying. i don’t believe that you are a Libertarian. i believe you’ve taken the LP as a marketing ploy for your persona. i’ll ask you a serious question:

How are you different from Vermin Supreme? because i don’t see a difference.

Chris Mendes

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/10 or reply to this email to respond.

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Hi Mike,

I paid the $50 state fee to keep the LPSF out of penalties from the State. I know we hate the state but it is required for an LP Institution. The prior chair & treasurer didn’t file at all and I used Mises Caucus contacts to get the ~$3,000 in fines accrued waived. There’s no marketing material at all. There’s no outreach to anyone other than who Starchild deems acceptable. Starchild realistically entertained someone who was released from SF General (junkie) who came into a meeting while 2 other real prospects were there. He has no vision other than promoting him. I just want to get rid of the checkbook and be done with this farce. This is after “working” with Starchild 1 on 1 for the past year. No one is able to work with him. If you can, then do it. I can’t.

Chris Mendes

That’s fine Chris….it’s good you came to that realization for yourself and for the LPSF. Personally, I’ve lost much of my interest in politics other than neighborhood issues. “There’s no political solution” is my new mantra. The LPSF is “up for grabs”. Thank you for giving it a try.

Mike Denny

···

From: CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 9:23 AM
To: mike@dennz.com
Subject: [LPSF Forum] [Discussion] Moderate vs Progressive

[https://forum.lpsf.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/d07c76/45.png]
CDMendeshttps://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 14

Hi Mike,

I paid the $50 state fee to keep the LPSF out of penalties from the State. I know we hate the state but it is required for an LP Institution. The prior chair & treasurer didn’t file at all and I used Mises Caucus contacts to get the ~$3,000 in fines accrued waived. There’s no marketing material at all. There’s no outreach to anyone other than who Starchild deems acceptable. Starchild realistically entertained someone who was released from SF General (junkie) who came into a meeting while 2 other real prospects were there. He has no vision other than promoting him. I just want to get rid of the checkbook and be done with this farce. This is after “working” with Starchild 1 on 1 for the past year. No one is able to work with him. If you can, then do it. I can’t.

Chris Mendes


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i don’t believe that [Starchild is] a Libertarian.

Chris, your accusations of Starchild are absurd. His positions are well documented, and are always based on libertarian principles and compassion. His willingness and ability to pitch libertarian solutions to problems that San Franciscans care about is outstanding.

He’s a fantastic representative for libertarianism. His earned goodwill and experience give him an audience of eager listeners at countless meetings ranging from student groups to police commissions. His passion, intelligence, and patience effectively plant libertarian ideas in minds that would not have otherwise been exposed to them.

He’s been able to spread liberty and maintain a safe harbor for libertarians in a place otherwise hostile to libertarianism.

zeitgeist

I’m aware of the zeitgeist that you represent: entitled Twitter-mob populism. You got riled up on Twitter, took over an IRL grassroots community, insulted longtime activists and potential allies, couldn’t get the other Mises Caucus-appointed officers to any meetings, failed to fulfill any election promises, and blamed it on the one person who showed up to do the work.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for stepping into the foray. I don’t think you watched that video because Starchild lays out his deception from the beginning. He claims to be a native San Franciscan because he visited his grandma here. The only people I know that lie about their origin stories are frauds.

I could have gotten the ExComm to override everything Starchild said or wanted to do but I didn’t because that would equate to a purge. You never showed up. No one wanted to show up because they don’t like working with Starchild. Neither do you. No one does and that’s the point. He has no real credibility outside of the people who are on this forum. No normie feels comfortable around him and that will be the issue whether or not I’m involved. Prove me wrong.

Chris Mendes

PS If Starchild is actually interested in growing the party then why didn’t he post his WONDERFUL (I mean it, wonderful) letter encouraging people to join the party to either the LPSF Twitter profile (he has access, I don’t) or the the website (he has access, I don’t)?

Chris Mendes

Chris,

I’m not sure where all your hostility toward me the last couple months has come from. You make some very strange accusations. If I was trying to lie about where I’m from, why wouldn’t I actually lie and just say I was born in San Francisco? What I tell people is true – I grew up in the East Bay, but spent a lot of time in the city as a kid because my grandmother lived here. If you don’t want to count that as me being an SF native, fine, whatever. I wasn’t trying to deceive anyone about it. What would even be the motive to lie to a Reason audience about something like that? You think libertarians in the rest of the country/world care whether I was born in SF or the East Bay? Sheesh.

Jeff, I appreciate your kind words and vote of confidence.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Dec 19, 2022, at 8:40 AM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 19
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for stepping into the foray. I don’t think you watched that video because Starchild lays out his deception from the beginning. He claims to be a native San Franciscan because he visited his grandma here. The only people I know that lie about their origin stories are frauds.

I could have gotten the ExComm to override everything Starchild said or wanted to do but I didn’t because that would equate to a purge. You never showed up. No one wanted to show up because they don’t like working with Starchild. Neither do you. No one does and that’s the point. He has no real credibility outside of the people who are on this forum. No normie feels comfortable around him and that will be the issue whether or not I’m involved. Prove me wrong.

Chris Mendes

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/15 or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

jeff https://forum.lpsf.org/u/jeff
December 19
i don’t believe that [Starchild is] a Libertarian. Chris, your accusations of Starchild are absurd. His positions are well documented, and are always based on libertarian principles and compassion. His willingness and ability to pitch libertarian solutions to problems that San Franciscans care ab…
Previous Replies

jeff https://forum.lpsf.org/u/jeff
December 19
i don’t believe that [Starchild is] a Libertarian.
Chris, your accusations of Starchild are absurd. His positions are well documented, and are always based on libertarian principles and compassion. His willingness and ability to pitch libertarian solutions to problems that San Franciscans care about is outstanding.

He’s a fantastic representative for libertarianism. His earned goodwill and experience give him an audience of eager listeners at countless meetings ranging from student groups to police commissions. His passion, intelligence, and patience effectively plant libertarian ideas in minds that would not have otherwise been exposed to them.

He’s been able to spread liberty and maintain a safe harbor for libertarians in a place otherwise hostile to libertarianism.

zeitgeist
I’m aware of the zeitgeist that you represent: entitled Twitter-mob populism. You got riled up on Twitter, took over an IRL grassroots community, insulted longtime activists and potential allies, couldn’t get the other Mises Caucus-appointed officers to any meetings, failed to fulfill any election promises, and blamed it on the one person who showed up to do the work.

dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 14
That’s fine Chris….it’s good you came to that realization for yourself and for the LPSF. Personally, I’ve lost much of my interest in politics other than neighborhood issues. “There’s no political solution” is my new mantra. The LPSF is “up for grabs”. Thank you for giving it a try.

Mike Denny

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/13
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 14
Hi Mike,

I paid the $50 state fee to keep the LPSF out of penalties from the State. I know we hate the state but it is required for an LP Institution. The prior chair & treasurer didn’t file at all and I used Mises Caucus contacts to get the ~$3,000 in fines accrued waived. There’s no marketing material at all. There’s no outreach to anyone other than who Starchild deems acceptable. Starchild realistically entertained someone who was released from SF General (junkie) who came into a meeting while 2 other real prospects were there. He has no vision other than promoting him. I just want to get rid of the checkbook and be done with this farce. This is after “working” with Starchild 1 on 1 for the past year. No one is able to work with him. If you can, then do it. I can’t.

Chris Mendes

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 11
Chris,

I appreciate you including the link to my video interview with Adam Kokesh, because if you watch the whole video, I think I clearly explain that I do support the Libertarian Party, but that the movement – the ideas of freedom, not any particular institution – is ultimately what deserve our allegiance and support.

Did you come to our meeting today? Did anyone else? I’m in the room at the library, did get here a bit late, but haven’t seen anyone else either in person or joining us online.

As for being unorganized, I’ll plead partially guilty to that.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/11
dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 11
That may be Chris….what does it have to do with the discussion at hand about LPSF organizational cooperation, management and leadership?

Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco www.LPSF.org http://www.lpsf.org/http://www.lpsf.org/ http://www.lpsf.org/
No On Prop A www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/ http://www.badsfbonds.blogspot.com/
www.DennyForMayor.com http://www.dennyformayor.com/http://www.dennyformayor.com/ http://www.dennyformayor.com/ - 2002-2003
(415) 608-0269
mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.commailto:mike@Dennz.com mailto:mike@Dennz.com··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/10
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the hostility is coming from me not wanting to participate in your performance art. watch the video about maj toure that i posted about what was wrong with the LP and what can be done to fix it. if you still want to work with me after that then show up at the january meeting. if not then don’t. but watch that video. I’ve got it queued up to his recommendations.

Chris,

I presume you’re talking about this Reason interview with Maj Toure for which you posted the link – YouTube https://www.youtube.com/embed/QtZmIe91WWk. And I have some thoughts to share in response. But – WARNING – a half dozen paragraphs of short to moderate length follow! If having to read that much of what I wrote feels like a burden, I suggest maybe spreading the reading out over a few days, maybe take it two or three sentences at a time, like they were posts on Twitter or Facebook.

When I clicked on your link, the video just started at the beginning and I ended up watching the whole thing. I’d actually like to thank you for prompting me to do so. I hadn’t watched a whole speech or interview with him before, and came away more appreciative of his message and what he’s doing. Not sure where you had it queued up to and what criticism of the LP he made that you’re talking about, but I found myself nodding to most of what he was saying. Maj admitted he can come across aggressive, and here or there I might argue with him on a particular point, like the extent to which indigenous Americans were considered as in the same category with negroes or how he didn’t lay out any grounds for calling Nick Sarwark a “goofball”, and I wouldn’t necessarily bet on some of his more overly ambitious/optimistic predictions, but based on this video interview I think he’s quite intelligent, makes compelling points, and has a lot of charisma. I can see him being someone who brings a lot of new people to the libertarian movement and inspires a lot of people.

In the interview by the way, Maj makes a very strong appeal for working together, working in coalition with people we don’t agree with everything on, and doing stuff in the community. What do you think about that? Seems at odds with your unwillingness to work even with me, let alone with Democrats where we’re in agreement with them, doesn’t it? In the clip where he’s talking with another black man who says he can do teach cutting hair, and Maj offers to let him come in and give barber lessons on site, use the space for free – I love that kind of creative collaboration, which I think has great potential. Bring people together and give them the opportunity to do something for freedom. How does Maj letting some random guy come in and cut hair in the space he or his donors pay for benefit the cause of freedom? I can give you my answer of why I think it does, but I’d like to hear whether you have a similar understanding.

I don’t know who Maj has worked with in starting and running his center in Philadelphia; if he built it more or less on his own from scratch, more props to him – I think I might find it difficult to sustain that level of motivation for such a project without collaborators. Many of us get recharged at party conventions from being around lots of other libertarians; I certainly do. Many of us find it easier to have energy and enthusiasm to do outreach and stuff when we’re with other libertarians, working together for freedom. It may or may not make rational sense, but it’s kind of like how you may find it more fun to watch a movie with someone else than by yourself. That to me is part of the point of having a Libertarian Party, or and other organizations in the freedom movement. We could each just go do stuff on our own, but working together can often be more fun and effective. (And activism that’s fun tends to be more effective, in that you are more likely to do it more often.)

I have a standing offer I know I’ve mentioned several times this year, to go out and do pro-freedom activism with others in our group. You think we should be doing more community activism? Me too. I’m not sure what you perceive as "performance art” though, or even what grounds you have for thinking performance art is a bad thing in libertarian outreach for that matter, but I never asked you to participate in any. Simply being at an event, or parade, or wherever, handing out lit and talking to people without otherwise taking part in any way isn’t exactly what I’d call “participating” in the event. You changed your mind and said you didn’t want to go to the Folsom Street Fair to hand out fliers after all; so be it. I’m not dragging you there. If you don’t want to go do it with me, do it on your own or find someone else, and props to you.

I’ve gone to every LPSF meeting this year except for I think one that ended really early, and had no plans on skipping the next one.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

P.S. – By the way, if my dressing up is distasteful performance art to you, what did you think of Maj’s hair in the video? Is that performance art? I found it quite artistic and cool. Looks like he or someone put some time, effort, and creativity into it. It definitely was not “normal" though. I’ll bet some employers would object to it. Does that make Maj a bad spokesperson for the LP or freedom?

···

On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:40 AM, CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:

CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 20
the hostility is coming from me not wanting to participate in your performance art. watch the video about maj toure that i posted about what was wrong with the LP and what can be done to fix it. if you still want to work with me after that then show up at the january meeting. if not then don’t. but watch that video. I’ve got it queued up to his recommendations.

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/17 or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 19
Chris, I’m not sure where all your hostility toward me the last couple months has come from. You make some very strange accusations. If I was trying to lie about where I’m from, why wouldn’t I actually lie and just say I was born in San Francisco? What I tell people is true – I grew up in the East …
Previous Replies

Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
December 19
Chris,

I’m not sure where all your hostility toward me the last couple months has come from. You make some very strange accusations. If I was trying to lie about where I’m from, why wouldn’t I actually lie and just say I was born in San Francisco? What I tell people is true – I grew up in the East Bay, but spent a lot of time in the city as a kid because my grandmother lived here. If you don’t want to count that as me being an SF native, fine, whatever. I wasn’t trying to deceive anyone about it. What would even be the motive to lie to a Reason audience about something like that? You think libertarians in the rest of the country/world care whether I was born in SF or the East Bay? Sheesh.

Jeff, I appreciate your kind words and vote of confidence.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/16
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 19
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for stepping into the foray. I don’t think you watched that video because Starchild lays out his deception from the beginning. He claims to be a native San Franciscan because he visited his grandma here. The only people I know that lie about their origin stories are frauds.

I could have gotten the ExComm to override everything Starchild said or wanted to do but I didn’t because that would equate to a purge. You never showed up. No one wanted to show up because they don’t like working with Starchild. Neither do you. No one does and that’s the point. He has no real credibility outside of the people who are on this forum. No normie feels comfortable around him and that will be the issue whether or not I’m involved. Prove me wrong.

Chris Mendes

PS If Starchild is actually interested in growing the party then why didn’t he post his WONDERFUL (I mean it, wonderful) letter encouraging people to join the party to either the LPSF Twitter profile (he has access, I don’t) or the the website (he has access, I don’t)?

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/embed/QtZmIe91WWk?autoplay=1&feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&start=1789
Chris Mendes

jeff https://forum.lpsf.org/u/jeff
December 19
i don’t believe that [Starchild is] a Libertarian.
Chris, your accusations of Starchild are absurd. His positions are well documented, and are always based on libertarian principles and compassion. His willingness and ability to pitch libertarian solutions to problems that San Franciscans care about is outstanding.

He’s a fantastic representative for libertarianism. His earned goodwill and experience give him an audience of eager listeners at countless meetings ranging from student groups to police commissions. His passion, intelligence, and patience effectively plant libertarian ideas in minds that would not have otherwise been exposed to them.

He’s been able to spread liberty and maintain a safe harbor for libertarians in a place otherwise hostile to libertarianism.

zeitgeist
I’m aware of the zeitgeist that you represent: entitled Twitter-mob populism. You got riled up on Twitter, took over an IRL grassroots community, insulted longtime activists and potential allies, couldn’t get the other Mises Caucus-appointed officers to any meetings, failed to fulfill any election promises, and blamed it on the one person who showed up to do the work.

dennz https://forum.lpsf.org/u/dennz
December 14
That’s fine Chris….it’s good you came to that realization for yourself and for the LPSF. Personally, I’ve lost much of my interest in politics other than neighborhood issues. “There’s no political solution” is my new mantra. The LPSF is “up for grabs”. Thank you for giving it a try.

Mike Denny

··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/13
CDMendes https://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 14
Hi Mike,

I paid the $50 state fee to keep the LPSF out of penalties from the State. I know we hate the state but it is required for an LP Institution. The prior chair & treasurer didn’t file at all and I used Mises Caucus contacts to get the ~$3,000 in fines accrued waived. There’s no marketing material at all. There’s no outreach to anyone other than who Starchild deems acceptable. Starchild realistically entertained someone who was released from SF General (junkie) who came into a meeting while 2 other real prospects were there. He has no vision other than promoting him. I just want to get rid of the checkbook and be done with this farce. This is after “working” with Starchild 1 on 1 for the past year. No one is able to work with him. If you can, then do it. I can’t.

Chris Mendes

Visit Topic https://forum.lpsf.org/t/moderate-vs-progressive/21746/17 or reply to this email to respond.

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Here’s what they think of you.

Hahahaha. It’s gratifying to know we have such deep influence in SF culture and politics. The fact we are mentioned at all is a kind of victory.

Happy New Year!

Mike

···

From: CDMendes via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2022 9:27 AM
To: mike@dennz.com
Subject: Re: [LPSF Forum] [Discussion] Moderate vs Progressive

[https://forum.lpsf.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/d07c76/45.png]
CDMendeshttps://forum.lpsf.org/u/cdmendes
December 31

Here’s what they think of you.
[https://forum.lpsf.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cac91ea42ada6e105b82ca304d6a89694c885dc2.png]San Francisco Chronicle – 27 Dec 22https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/liberal-sf-drug-crisis-17669296.php
[https://forum.lpsf.org/uploads/default/optimized/2X/1/13e35675c2a146a4f85cab3d4e951068a1a480b7_2_690x459.jpeg]
No, soft-on-crime liberalism isn’t fueling S.F.’s drug crisis. Libertarianism ishttps://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/liberal-sf-drug-crisis-17669296.php

San Franciscans’ liberalism is why the government offers generous health and social…


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