On Aug 19, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Leslie Mangus via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:
lesliemangus https://forum.lpsf.org/u/lesliemangus
August 19
My guess is that they will interpret it to mean that saying the group is Democratic or Republican or Libertarian is ok as long as the word “party” is not included. The law does not prohibit groups of Dems, Reps or Libs from supporting or opposing ballot measures, but it does prohibit parties from doing so. Probably the only way to get around this would be to start a group “San Francisco Libertarian Activists”. Someone could be an activist, but not necessarily a party member. I am not sure what the logic is behind prohibiting political parties from supporting or opposing measures: after all the purpose of a political party is to engage in politics. But apparently someone thought up a reason.
Old age is definitely catching up with me. I don’t get out too much these days. One of the biggest problems is hearing loss. I have always been hard of hearing due to a childhood illness. I don’t whether it was the illness itself or the medications that caused a near total hearing loss in high frequencies. Now I am totally deaf to sound above 1200 cps (cycles per second). I can hear lots of sound, but speech is very hard to follow. I cannot hear any voiceless consonants (p, t, k, ch, s, f, th). Voiced consonants are audible, but hard to distinguish. I cannot hear the difference between "name, main, maim). I have a captioning service on the phone or I would not be able to understand anything.
Starchild
August 19 |
Hi Les,
Good to hear from you, it’s been a while! I saw that language, and personally feel like it could be plausibly interpreted either way with regard to the inclusion of party clubs, caucuses, and the like. The question for us seems to be how those making decisions at the San Francisco Elections Department will choose to interpret it, and I don’t know the answer to that. Presumably they’ll get back to me and let me know. Depending on the rationale they give, it may offer us some kind of opening to have some kind of Libertarian-named entity be listed as an opponent in future ballot arguments.
How have you been? Will we be seeing you at our meetings again?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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In Reply To
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
August 16
The San Francisco Department of Elections is apparently claiming we can’t list the “Libertarian Party of San Francisco” as a ballot argument signatory (see letter below). We’ve been doing it this way for years and it has never been a problem in the past. I’m not sure if this “challenge” originated w…
Previous Replies
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
August 19
Hi Les,
Good to hear from you, it’s been a while! I saw that language, and personally feel like it could be plausibly interpreted either way with regard to the inclusion of party clubs, caucuses, and the like. The question for us seems to be how those making decisions at the San Francisco Elections Department will choose to interpret it, and I don’t know the answer to that. Presumably they’ll get back to me and let me know. Depending on the rationale they give, it may offer us some kind of opening to have some kind of Libertarian-named entity be listed as an opponent in future ballot arguments.
How have you been? Will we be seeing you at our meetings again?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/lpsf-being-told-our-groups-name-cant-appear-on-ballot-arguments/21997/8
lesliemangus https://forum.lpsf.org/u/lesliemangus
August 19
Starchild:
I looked in the California Elections Code Sec 9170. Paragraph (a)(5) says that “a supporter or opponent shall not be listed if the supporter or opponent is a political party or the representative of a political party”. There is no indication of when this was added to the code. Perhaps it was not enforced in the past or maybe somebody recently discovered that the LP cannot be listed as a supporter or opponent.
I would guess that a name like “The Republican Liberty Caucus” would not have any problem because it does NOT include the word "Party"I don’t know what the justification for this rule, but it is in the law.
Starchild
August 17 |
Thanks, Joe, for your thoughts. Do you know whether the rule has been interpreted to allow, or prohibit, the names of groups or clubs that include the names of political parties, such as the Chinese American Democratic Club, or the Republican Liberty Caucus, from appearing in this context?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
August 17
Thanks, Joe, for your thoughts. Do you know whether the rule has been interpreted to allow, or prohibit, the names of groups or clubs that include the names of political parties, such as the Chinese American Democratic Club, or the Republican Liberty Caucus, from appearing in this context?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
··· (click for more details) https://forum.lpsf.org/t/lpsf-being-told-our-groups-name-cant-appear-on-ballot-arguments/21997/6
jwd3 https://forum.lpsf.org/u/jwd3
August 17
Yes, that’s my understanding as well. We can still “sign” the arguments
in the voter information guide, for or against, as “Chair, Libertarian
Party of XXX” – nothing has changed about that.
But there are different rules for this listing of supporters/opponents
ON THE BALLOT, which is a new thing entirely, only the last couple of
elections, at least for local measures. And one of those rules is
specifically that a political party can’t be listed. Why? I don’t know
for sure, but my guess is that somebody thought that since all the
government offices at the local level are “non-partisan” (and as part of
that candidates for County Supervisor, City Council, etc. are not
allowed to identify themselves on the ballot as being affiliated with
any political party), the same should be true for measures put forth by
those local governments.
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Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
August 17
Thanks for your reply, Mark. I’m aware this has been common practice with other LP entities as well. It turns out I misunderstood the initial communication from the Elections Department, and they meant something different – if still rather ridiculous and unfair in my opinion. Please review the follow-up messages for more details.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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