Wednesday Political Chat

Discussion
1

Hmm... then why is Zamboni still the world monopoly then? if John Deere or Land Rover steps in, Zamboni can 1) merge with John Deere or Land Rover or 2) drive out all competitions by selling below cost, provided, of course, that there are no antitrust laws and assuming a ceteris paribus situation.

Here's a counterexample, look at the L.A. transportation industry... the oil and automobile industry created a monopoly there by jointly buying out the railroad industry, so to ensure that consumers would still have to buy their cars and oil. As a result, there are more cars and pollution there than anywhere in the country. Why is it so hard then for subways and electric-operated cars to develop there then?

- Celine

2

Hmm... then why is Zamboni still the world monopoly then?

How big is the market for Zamboni's? Perhaps it's the only player because the market is too small to be of interest. It's like shoe repair shops. If one sets up shop, how likely is it that 10 more will open next door to it given that the market for shoe repair is so small.

Here's a counterexample, look at the L.A. transportation industry... the oil and automobile industry created a monopoly there by jointly buying out the railroad industry, so to ensure that consumers would still have to buy their cars and oil.

Did they do this everywhere else in the world at the same time. :slight_smile: Even in places with excellent public transit, cars fill the streets.

As a result, there are more cars and pollution there than anywhere in the country. Why is it so hard then for subways and electric-operated cars to develop there then?

Does the state allow any company to buy land and install subways? I don't think so. Does the city of LA even allow competing bus services? Will tax payers have to pay for state run public transit even even they used private options?

Cheers,
Steve
OSX freeware and shareware: http://www.dekorte.com/downloads.html

3

Hmm... then why is Zamboni still the world monopoly
then? if John Deere or Land Rover steps in, Zamboni
can 1) merge with John Deere or Land Rover or 2)
drive out all competitions by selling below cost,
provided, of course, that there are no antitrust
laws and assuming a ceteris paribus situation.

Celine -

'Monopoly' is such a dirty word these days. Instead,
how about using 'dominate player' to describe
successful, non-government subsidized companies? :slight_smile:

Either way, monopolies don't really exist in a real
free market anyway. The trouble with antitrust laws
deals with the way monopolies are defined. If you use
a market-share type methodology, you would then have
to define exactly what the dominated market is. Since
markets are just arbitrary and subjective groupings of
companies, this gets extremely complex over any length
of time. For instance, if you ask 10 companies who
their competitors are, you usually get 10 different
answers.

Another example, I happen monopolize the 'Gray Davis
Origami Heads' market since I happen to be the only
one currently making Gray Davis Origami Heads . Am I
an anti-trust violator if I use predatory pricing
tactics in giving them away for free? Microsoft got
screwed on this point since the court agreed to the
DOJ's market definition as 'operating systems designed
to run on Intel-compatible personal computers ("PCs")'
. This conveniently excluded Apple, Sun, IBM, etc. by
defining a market so narrow, it could only contain
products in an arena Microsoft essentially created!

Economies and markets are so complex and dynamic,
attempting to categorize them using conventional
wisdom is akin to the futility of categorizing clouds.
As soon as you think you see a dog shaped cloud in the
sky, it has merged with a cat shaped cloud to then
form a huge tree shaped cloud that then blows away. So
maybe all you really saw all along was just water
vapor...

Also, here's an excellent document put out by Cato on
anti-trust -
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-405es.html

cheers,

David

4

Dear All;

To see a slightly dated version of what constitutes a government's idea of what a monopoly is as determined by the government and what happens when the government interferes, intervenes and interrupts a free market read Ayn Rand's " Atlas Shrugged ".

While it was written back in 1957 the basic underlying precepts still apply. If you haven't read it lately or never have - try it - you may like it.

Ron Getty

David Rhodes <dfrhodes@...> wrote:

Hmm... then why is Zamboni still the world monopoly
then? if John Deere or Land Rover steps in, Zamboni
can 1) merge with John Deere or Land Rover or 2)
drive out all competitions by selling below cost,
provided, of course, that there are no antitrust
laws and assuming a ceteris paribus situation.

Celine -

'Monopoly' is such a dirty word these days. Instead,
how about using 'dominate player' to describe
successful, non-government subsidized companies? :slight_smile:

Either way, monopolies don't really exist in a real
free market anyway. The trouble with antitrust laws
deals with the way monopolies are defined. If you use
a market-share type methodology, you would then have
to define exactly what the dominated market is. Since
markets are just arbitrary and subjective groupings of
companies, this gets extremely complex over any length
of time. For instance, if you ask 10 companies who
their competitors are, you usually get 10 different
answers.

Another example, I happen monopolize the 'Gray Davis
Origami Heads' market since I happen to be the only
one currently making Gray Davis Origami Heads . Am I
an anti-trust violator if I use predatory pricing
tactics in giving them away for free? Microsoft got
screwed on this point since the court agreed to the
DOJ's market definition as 'operating systems designed
to run on Intel-compatible personal computers ("PCs")'
. This conveniently excluded Apple, Sun, IBM, etc. by
defining a market so narrow, it could only contain
products in an arena Microsoft essentially created!

Economies and markets are so complex and dynamic,
attempting to categorize them using conventional
wisdom is akin to the futility of categorizing clouds.
As soon as you think you see a dog shaped cloud in the
sky, it has merged with a cat shaped cloud to then
form a huge tree shaped cloud that then blows away. So
maybe all you really saw all along was just water
vapor...

Also, here's an excellent document put out by Cato on
anti-trust -
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-405es.html

cheers,

David