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Eric,
I approve of the American Revolution in retrospect, just as I approve of many historical events, but I can't claim it as "mine" or "ours" any more than the signing of the Magna Carta was "mine" or "ours." It wasn't my revolution, I wasn't alive in the late 1700s.
Love & liberty,
<<< starchild >>>
Regardless, not just who votes and or protest, by not Cyprus Attuck'in (first ti die for our revolution) we're allowing too much to accur!
From: "Amarcy D. Berry"
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: "We the People," collective guilt, and Original Sin
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:41:37 -0000Hi Starchild,
Yup, I am with you on pretty much all counts on your e-mail; except
for the last sentence, since you have no control over Original Sin,
but you do have control over the scum you put in office. (If your
next question is who is "you", yup again, you are right, my reply
would be, it's We the People!)Marcy
>
> Marcy & Eric,
>
> Who are "We the People" in your messages below who "put the
scums in
> office" and "got us into this war?" Are you including only people
> eligible to vote, when apportioning blame for who holds political
> power? That would imply that persons under 18 and many others are
*not*
> part of "We the People."
>
> Of course one can easily have more impact on the political
process by
> engaging in Internet activism, getting a letter published in the
paper,
> or so forth, than by voting. As a matter of fact, one doesn't even
need
> to reside in the United States or be a U.S. citizen in order to
have a
> greater effect on U.S. politics than the average American voter.
So
> then, is the entire world to blame for the Republicrats? Or only
the
> people with enough education, resources and free time to be
politically
> active? Then again, a good many of the people lacking in
knowledge,
> time or resources might have had these things in abundance had
they
> made different choices, so that doesn't get all those "foreigners"
born
> into decent circumstances off the hook so easily.
>
> By a similar standard, of course, anyone who had the ability
to
> intervene in a positive way in the life of a child even slightly
(being
> friendly to a tot when encountering him on the street with his
parents,
> for example), but didn't, bears part of the responsibility when
that
> kid, as a result of a troubled childhood where he didn't get
enough
> positivity, later goes out and robs a convenience store.
Clearly "We
> the People" are to blame for all these shootings, muggings, and so
on
> that one reads about in the media, since these things happened
in "our"
> society and any of us could have done something more to prevent
the
> circumstances leading up to them than we did. As a matter of fact,
even
> if you were a model parent , you're still equally responsible as
part
> of "We the People" when it comes to doling out the blame. And if
you're
> not a parent, then it's still your fault for not having kids, since
if
> you'd had good kids, they could have helped exert positive peer
> pressure on the troubled ones.
>
> You're with me on all that, right? After all, Libertarians
are
> (apparently, in your view) no less responsible for Bush and the
current
> members of Congress being elected as were those who actively
supported
> them, since we're just as much a part of "We the People."
Individual
> behavior and consent have nothing to do with our
responsibility/guilt
> -- it's an automatic thing, kind of like Original Sin. Right?
>
> Love & liberty,
> <<< starchild >>>
>
> > Here, here Marcy!
> > > From: "Amarcy D. Berry" <amarcyb@...>
> > > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: I wanna rouse some rabble! - STOP
THE
> > WAR RALLY
> > > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:35:41 -0000
> > >
> > > Thank you, Eric. For years now, I have been a lonely voice on
this
> > > List communicating to my fellow Libertarians my belief that
1) "We
> > > the People" put the scums in office that cause so much chagrin;
and
> > > 2) As Eric stated so well: better to have public support than
mere
> > > attention.
> > >
> > > Thus, SFTW Coalition hopes to add its voice to the other
numerous
> > > rally's that are taking place throughout the country, and state
> > > simply and peacefully that we are encouraging our elected
> > > representatives to stop the war by stopping its funding.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Marcy
> > >
> > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "eric dupree"
> > > <dupreeconsults@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yeah and the house flags should go up in flames also! And the
Cali
> > > flag and all the state flag the voted in the prez.
> > > > We are more than just a presidential country...Bush did not
get us
> > > into this war. We the people did and now are shucking the blame?
> > > > > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > > > > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: I wanna rouse some rabble! -
STOP
> > > THE WAR RALLY
> > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 00:53:52 -0800
> > > > > > > How about burning a big flag -- not the American flag,
but a
> > > flag
> > > > > bearing the presidential seal? I think that would send an >
> > > > appropriate message, and get some media attention, without
the >
> > > > misguided backlash from some quarters that might greet the
> > > burning
> > > > > of "Old Glory," or the implicit message of violence of
burning
> > > the
> > > > > would-be king in effigy.
> > > > > > By the way, I also previously raised the idea of having a
>
> > > > Libertarian MC (Marc Joffe?) for the event to guarantee the LP
> > > some
> > > > > visibility there, but don't recall seeing any responses to
this
> > > > > suggestion. What do those involved in planning the rally
think
> > > > > about these ideas?
> > > > > > Love & liberty,
> > > > > <<< starchild >>>
> > > > > > > Ooops my first message got botched up; so here goes
again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Ron,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for the suggestion of slash and burn! However, I
> > > think the
> > > > > > Stop Funding the War Coalition voted from the start to
have a
> > > > > > peaceful rally, such as "the people peaceably to
assemble, and
> > > to
> > > > > > petition the government for a redress of grievances." I
> > > supposed the
> > > > > > idea is to walk the walk; if you call for peace, it would
seem
> > > to me
> > > > > > strange to do it through any kind of violence. But,
that's just
> > > my
> > > > > > opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Marcy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Amarcy D. Berry"
> > > <amarcyb@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Ron Getty
> > <tradergroupe@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear Everyone;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For those of you involved in the Stop The War Rally -
> > > here's a
> > > > > > > forwarded message from Aster Francesca with a thought
for
> > > > > > > consideration as the capper for the Stop The War Rally
event
> > -
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Burn his royal highness King George the II in
effigy!!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That'll certainly get the attention of the FBI and
Homeland
> > > > > > > Security and Secret Service Presidential Protection
Detail
> > and
> > > > > > > Government Office Building Polizei - let the news media
know
> > > in
> > > > > > > advance what you are planning on doing - as this is the
type
> > > of eye
> > > > > > > candy they just love for the in-depth 10 second news
bites
> > > for 5-6-
> > > > > > 7-
> > > > > > > 9-10-11.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BTW: Going to have a band there playing a dirge or at
least
> > > a
> > > > > > > trumpeter playing Taps for all the fallen dead both
military
> > > and
> > > > > > > civilian? How about a dragon dance to scare away the
evils of
> > > war
> > > > > > > followed by the traditional firecracker ball to really
blast
> > > away
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > demons of war?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BTW: Will there be lots of colorful banners?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ron Getty
> > > > > > > > SF Libertarian
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Aster Francesca <ms_shiris@>
> > > > > > > > To: Salon_Liberty@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27:58 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: {Salon Liberty} I wanna rouse some rabble!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A very interesting peice from Charles Johnson's site
on the
> > > > > > > American Revolution:
> > > > > > > > http://radgeek.com/gt/2007/02/24/over_my
> > > > > > > > Hey, why doesn't someone (say, the anti-war movement)
get
> > > > > > together
> > > > > > > and very publically hang George II* in effigy- perhaps
in a
> > > > > > > deliberately Colonial style?
> > > > > > > > If your not-quite-voiced answer is: "I'm afraid what
would
> > > happen
> > > > > > > to me if I did so", then you have discovered the reason
> > > someone
> > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > to do it, before your worried fear is certain fact.
> > > > > > > > Many, many people I know from friends to colleagues to
> > > clients to
> > > > > > > random people I meet in the supermarket are beginning to
> > > conclude
> > > > > > > they truly do need to worry. All of these people would
> > > understand
> > > > > > > the meaning of a public burning instantly and would all
come
> > > away
> > > > > > > from hearing of one that much more consciously radical.
> > > > > > > > I know some of you are involved in the anti-war
movement.
> > > Has
> > > > > > > anyone thought of this?
> > > > > > > > love and strife,
> > > > > > > > Aster Francesca {)(*)(}
> > > > > > > > * Or why don'twe getinthe habit of protesting I
wannother
> > > > > > officials
> > > > > > > by beheading them? DEA and Homeland Security officials
come
> > to
> > > > > > > mind. Or local police commisioners.
> > > > > > > > Why don't sex workers publically get together and
declare
> > > the
> > > > > > cops
> > > > > > > and the feds the occupying army there are? Jailed
prostitutes
> > > are
> > > > > > > patriarchy's political prisoners. They're arresting us
and
> > > killing
> > > > > > > us, and we protest by running ballot initiatives,
throwing
> > > parties,
> > > > > > > and having tea with politicians. What gives with that?
We
> > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > declaring people who would ruin lives for practicing
their
> > > living
> > > > > > > steppe raiders and tyrants beyond the boundaries of
> > > civilisation.
> > > > > > > > Freude, schöner Götterfunken
> > > > > > > > Tochter aus Elysium,
> > > > > > > > Wir betreten feuertrunken,
> > > > > > > > Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!
> > > > > > > > Deine Zauber binden wieder
> > > > > > > > Was die Mode streng geteilt.
> > > > > > > > Alle Menschen werden Brüder
> > > > > > > > Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.
> > > > > > > > email ms_shiris@
> > > > > > > >
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>--
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