We have been told we are chaotic!

Hi Marcy,

  Where did this feedback come from? Can you forward the message here, or was it just sent privately to you only?

  Do you think we need more "structure" than we have now in order to accomplish specific objectives? There is at least *one* area where I definitely think this is true, and that is hosting events at which we hear from and interview candidates and ballot measure proponents/opponents in a timely fashion prior to each election. I'd like to see us adopt a solid process for this, and stick to it.

  But when I think of other things that we don't do, or do but could do better, lack of structure does not seem to me to be the main obstacle. The main obstacle for the LPSF overall, in my experience, is getting more people to make activism a bigger part of their lives. Structure by itself does not produce results, only action can do that.

Love & Liberty,
                                 ((( starchild )))

Hi Starchild,

Yes, the guest's dialog was intended to be private from his point of view, so I will not post it. And, yes, as I have been saying for years on this list, we seem to be O K with flying by the seat of our pants, without any idea of where we want to go.

You are entirely correct that what we need are hands on deck; but could it be that indeed potential hands disappear when confronted with the chaos we generate?


I mostly agree with Starchild on this one. What we need most is people who want
to DO something like demonstrating or writing letters to the editor or attending
functions like JSA. We do not need people who want to put forward all sorts of
ideas about what someone else should do! If someone thinks we should be doing
something we aren't doing, then they should volunteer to do it. The LPSF is and
is likely to remain a volunteer organization. Unlike the pachyderms and
jackasses we do not have a ton of money or the donor base to hire professionals
to do our work for us.

What we lack is not structure, but elbow grease.


Just one person's opinion. And it can't be held as particularly important if the person won't own it themselves...hardly a sales pitch.

It seems our little gang of Merry Women and Men is doing splendidly. I ran into Chris Bowman, head of the local Republicans, at a party last Friday. He said how impressed he was with our showing in the last election and the quality of our arguments.

As an aside, he believes with "top two", the LPCA should consider revising bylaws to allow Libertarians to endorse other party candidates. He said if we are to turn the political discussion our way, Libertarians need to be able to fully endorse candidates like John Dennis and he mentioned another I didn't recognize. He also said the CA Republicans were only 7 votes (out of around 112) short of voting for a "social freedom" platform realizing they aren't going to get anywhere as the party of personal intervention. He also said he voted for Ron Paul in the primary...don't know if I believe him or not although he said he "held his nose".

What this all means is not clear. But it was good he treated the LPSF with respect and wanted us on his team. Whether that is a good strategy or not is something us complaining malcontents to have a chaotic unfocused discussion about.


Regarding activism...we are what we are. We can do what we can do. And I feel nothing but happiness and appreciation for that.

Thank you all....


Hi Les,

Please read my posts again, since the point our guest was trying to make is that elbow grease will only attend one meeting and then run away at the perception of our chaos.

No perception of defined goals, no elbow grease! Am I to understand you disagree with that view?


Hi Mike,

Your posts are always a treasure of positive thinking! Correct. What is a good strategy? I had a brief exchange the other day with Sally of Bay Area Tea Party. She was most distressed that Libertarians helped to elect Obama by not joining forces with the Tea Party. I guess Chris might feel the same way? So what is LPSF's position?


Republicans helped elect Obama by not joining forces with Libertarians.

- --
Chris Maden, text nerd <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
Axial tilt is the reason for the season.
GnuPG fingerprint: DB08 CF6C 2583 7F55 3BE9 A210 4A51 DBAC 5C5C 3D5E



It's flattering to be asked to speak for the LPSF...but not possible. As said below..."this is something us complaining malcontents need to have a chaotic unfocused discussion about."


Double Amen!! I was not quick enough to think of that response.


Sounds good to me!!


Thanks, Michael; I agree. This looks like a good occasion to acknowledge something I've been feeling for a good many months: that I have been overwhelmed by the amount and quality of work put in by our activists-primarily (in no particular order) Marcy, Aubrey, and Starchild. It has not only been awesome to see; it looks, as Mike says, as though it might even be having some effect. So, thanks a Brazilian.



Oh, we turned greedy. We want to accomplish more.

Marcy : - ]

One can accomplish more AND be thankful for what we already have and have done. No need to berate ourselves or accept it from others...especially those who want to comment in secrecy.


I guess I do disagree. As I said before the LPSF is very much a volunteer
organization. We do what those who volunteer are willing to do. Anyone who comes
to a Libertarian meeting expecting to find an organized group like the Dems and
Repubs is going to be disappointed and this is likely not going to change.

Personally I really don't care what guests think I or we ought to be doing. If
they want to be part, then they should volunteer to do something.


I totally understand your point, Les. When it comes to local political parties, whatever work there is to be done will be done by volunteers, as I would imagine is the case with the other local political parties.


First ao all, politics is supposed to be chaotic. I It is the process where people fight for other people's stuff, and fight over ideas.

The D and R's have a powerful ruling oligarchy. The local activists better tow the line if they want to make a career of politics. Most of the local junior pols that I have met in our otherwise wonderful city, are career oriented towards a life of living off the trough, for the benefit of the poor and the planet, of course.

WeAs for definite goals, haven't we seen enough of government agendas.
We have a clearly defined agenda. No initiation of force. End of story. All the rest is learning and education.
the ideal we seek is one million soverigns in San Francisco, with an unknowable set of agendas, each soverign pursuing his or hers or hishers agenda in peace.

We are few and we are proud, and history is on our side, maybe after some serious pain created by the organized criminal agendas of the ruling parties. our ideas will reign and we can get elected in order to dissolve our positions.