Transgender Inmates Seek Sex Changes

Dear Everyone;

A late breaking news story about an inmate who is suing in federal court to get the state to pay for a sex - gender operation. Obviously a topic which includes sexual rights - inmate rights - taxpayers rights.

A very apt topic for some interesting discussion.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

Transgender Inmates Seek Sex Changes
- By DENISE LAVOIE, Associated Press Writer
Thursday, August 24, 2006

(08-24) 18:36 PDT BOSTON (AP) --

Wearing lipstick, a scooped-neck sweater and nearly waist-length hair, the witness cried while describing what it feels like to be a woman trapped inside a man's body. "The greatest loss is the dying I do inside a little bit every day," said Michelle Kosilek, an inmate who is serving a life sentence for murder.
Kosilek was Robert Kosilek when he was convicted in the killing of his wife. In 1993, while in prison, he legally changed his name to Michelle.
Since then, Kosilek has been fighting for the state Department of Correction to pay for sex-change surgery, which can cost from $10,000 to $20,000. After two lawsuits and two trials, the decision now rests with a federal judge.
Kosilek's case has become fodder for radio talk shows, often provoking outrage among callers on topic of whether the state should pay for a convicted murderer's sex-change operation.
The case is also being closely watched by attorneys and advocates across the country who say Kosilek is an example of the poor treatment transgender inmates receive in prison.
Courts in several other states have ordered prison systems to allow transgender inmates to receive psychotherapy and, in some cases, hormone shots. But no inmate in the country has ever succeeded in getting a court to order a sex-change operation, according to advocates.
"If people are not treated, they suffer tremendously," said Shannon Minter, a board member of the Transgender Law and Policy Institute. "It's just as cruel to withhold treatment for gender-identity disorder as it is to withhold treatment for any other medical issue."
In Massachusetts, four of the 12 inmates diagnosed with gender-identity disorder are receiving hormone shots, including Kosilek. Prison officials also allowed Kosilek to receive laser hair removal, female undergarments and some makeup.
Some states allow inmates to continue hormone treatments if they are already on hormones when they begin their sentences, but most do not allow inmates to initiate hormone therapy while in prison. Many states do not have any written policy for the treatment of transgender inmates, said Cole Thaler, a transgender-rights attorney for Lambda Legal, a national advocacy group for homosexual, bisexual and transgender people.
Inmates in several other states have sued prison officials for sex-change operations. Like Kosilek, they argued that gender-identity disorder is a serious illness that can lead to severe anxiety, depression, suicide attempts and self-castration. They argue that treatment for their condition is a "medical necessity" and denying it would violate the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.
"It's the most absurd thing I've ever heard of," said Wisconsin state Rep. Mark Gundrum, who helped write a state law that bars the Department of Correction from using tax dollars for hormone therapy or sex-reassignment surgery.
He said the framers of the Constitution "were envisioning preventing people from being burned in oil or burned at the stake," not simply refusing to use taxpayer dollars for inmate sex changes or breast implants.
The law was introduced after Wisconsin inmate Scott Konitzer filed a lawsuit seeking a sex-change operation. The law took effect in January, but is being challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union and Lambda Legal.
In Colorado, inmate Christopher "Kitty" Grey, who is serving 16 years to life for molesting an 8-year-old girl, is suing the state to provide him with a gender specialist he hopes will determine that he needs a sex-change operation. The state Department of Corrections is already giving Grey female hormones.
"For all intents and purposes, I am a woman in a man's prison," Grey told the Denver Post in an interview earlier this year. "That's like putting a cat in a dog kennel," Grey said.
Colorado officials say that providing a sex-change operation for Grey or any of the other two dozen transgender inmates in the state's prisons would create security concerns.
Dr. James Michaud, chief of mental health for the Colorado prison system, said he does not believe sex-change operations are medically necessary.
"There are certainly people who are transgender who want surgery and who want to appear different, but I don't think that makes it medically necessary," he said.

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/08/24/national/a110247D84.DTL

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

Dear Derek;

By sex rights - in this particular case this man believes they are a
woman - but they are in prison for life for murder. They feel they
are a woman trapped in a man's body but have no recourse to get
their sex right while in prison unless the state pays the price to
have the sex set right so this person can live a life as a woman
until they die in prison - most likley a woman's prison after the
sex change - hence sex rights as to sexuality.

And of course the question is should this be done at taxpayers
expense because this person is already in prison at taxpayers
expense but should an additional $10,000 - $20,000 be added on to
get things right? Should this person be forced to go through life in
prison as a man when they mentally feel they are a woman and of
course there are medical tests to determine if there is a genuine
sexual hormone imbalance from nature gone awry.....

No need to go through all the potential and most likley actual abuse
this person goes through every day as a woman trapped in a mans body
in a mens prison....

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Jensen" <derekj72@...>
wrote:

Ron:

How is this related to "sex rights"? It would seem to me asking

someone to

pay for having your private parts lopped off is a positive right,

not a

negative one.

-Derek

>
> Dear Everyone;
>
> A late breaking news story about an inmate who is suing in

federal court

> to get the state to pay for a sex - gender operation. Obviously

a topic

> which includes sexual rights - inmate rights - taxpayers rights.
>
> A very apt topic for some interesting discussion.
>
> Ron Getty
> SF Libertarian
>
> *Transgender Inmates Seek Sex Changes*<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-

bin/article.cgi?
file=/news/archive/2006/08/24/national/a110247D84.DTL>

> *
> *- By DENISE LAVOIE, Associated Press Writer
> Thursday, August 24, 2006
> (08-24) 18:36 PDT BOSTON (AP) --
>
>
> Wearing lipstick, a scooped-neck sweater and nearly waist-length

hair, the

> witness cried while describing what it feels like to be a woman

trapped

> inside a man's body. "The greatest loss is the dying I do inside

a little

> bit every day," said Michelle Kosilek, an inmate who is serving

a life

> sentence for murder.
>
> Kosilek was Robert Kosilek when he was convicted in the killing

of his

> wife. In 1993, while in prison, he legally changed his name to

Michelle.

>
> Since then, Kosilek has been fighting for the state Department of
> Correction to pay for sex-change surgery, which can cost from

$10,000 to

> $20,000. After two lawsuits and two trials, the decision now

rests with a

> federal judge.
>
> Kosilek's case has become fodder for radio talk shows, often

provoking

> outrage among callers on topic of whether the state should pay

for a

> convicted murderer's sex-change operation.
>
> The case is also being closely watched by attorneys and

advocates across

> the country who say Kosilek is an example of the poor treatment

transgender

> inmates receive in prison.
>
> Courts in several other states have ordered prison systems to

allow

> transgender inmates to receive psychotherapy and, in some cases,

hormone

> shots. But no inmate in the country has ever succeeded in

getting a court to

> order a sex-change operation, according to advocates.
>
> "If people are not treated, they suffer tremendously," said

Shannon

> Minter, a board member of the Transgender Law and Policy

Institute. "It's

> just as cruel to withhold treatment for gender-identity disorder

as it is to

> withhold treatment for any other medical issue."
>
> In Massachusetts, four of the 12 inmates diagnosed with gender-

identity

> disorder are receiving hormone shots, including Kosilek. Prison

officials

> also allowed Kosilek to receive laser hair removal, female

undergarments and

> some makeup.
>
> Some states allow inmates to continue hormone treatments if they

are

> already on hormones when they begin their sentences, but most do

not allow

> inmates to initiate hormone therapy while in prison. Many states

do not have

> any written policy for the treatment of transgender inmates,

said Cole

> Thaler, a transgender-rights attorney for Lambda Legal, a

national advocacy

> group for homosexual, bisexual and transgender people.
>
> Inmates in several other states have sued prison officials for

sex-change

> operations. Like Kosilek, they argued that gender-identity

disorder is a

> serious illness that can lead to severe anxiety, depression,

suicide

> attempts and self-castration. They argue that treatment for

their condition

> is a "medical necessity" and denying it would violate the Eighth

Amendment's

> prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.
>
> "It's the most absurd thing I've ever heard of," said Wisconsin

state Rep.

> Mark Gundrum, who helped write a state law that bars the

Department of

> Correction from using tax dollars for hormone therapy or sex-

reassignment

> surgery.
>
> He said the framers of the Constitution "were envisioning

preventing

> people from being burned in oil or burned at the stake," not

simply refusing

> to use taxpayer dollars for inmate sex changes or breast

implants.

>
> The law was introduced after Wisconsin inmate Scott Konitzer

filed a

> lawsuit seeking a sex-change operation. The law took effect in

January, but

> is being challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union and

Lambda Legal.

>
> In Colorado, inmate Christopher "Kitty" Grey, who is serving 16

years to

> life for molesting an 8-year-old girl, is suing the state to

provide him

> with a gender specialist he hopes will determine that he needs a

sex-change

> operation. The state Department of Corrections is already giving

Grey female

> hormones.
>
> "For all intents and purposes, I am a woman in a man's prison,"

Grey told

> the Denver Post in an interview earlier this year. "That's like

putting a

> cat in a dog kennel," Grey said.
>
> Colorado officials say that providing a sex-change operation for

Grey or

> any of the other two dozen transgender inmates in the state's

prisons would

> create security concerns.
>
> Dr. James Michaud, chief of mental health for the Colorado

prison system,

> said he does not believe sex-change operations are medically

necessary.

>
> "There are certainly people who are transgender who want surgery

and who

> want to appear different, but I don't think that makes it

medically

> necessary," he said.
>
>
> URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?

file=/news/archive/2006/08/24/national/a110247D84.DTL

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

Dear Ron,

Thank you for the amazing article. "Rights".. what does that mean? I
guess it means whatever a social group decides it means? And as long
as the liberal social group says it is OK to use unlimited amounts of
taxpayers' hard-earned cash, "Rights" will also be unlimited -- right
to education, right to medical care, right to housing, right to a
living wage, right to a sex-change operation. Well, I will continue
to hope that Libertarians will one day be successful in pointing out
to the general, average working Joe/Jane that he/she is being taken
for a ride.

Marcy

--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "tradergroupe" <tradergroupe@...>
wrote:

Dear Marcy;

Rights on!!! As long as people feel or believe they have rights to things - we will be seeing other people(politicans) assuming they have the rights to take money from peoples and give that to people who believe they have the rights to other peoples money to have the rights that's owed to them.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

Just a factual correction: there is no hormone test which can determine transgenderism. In fact, it is the fact that a transgender person has the wrong hormones in their system that constitutes one of the worst experiences for a transgender individual. I felt since puberty that the internal feelings of having of having testerone in my system were wrong, when I started taking estrogen and progesterone I simply started feeling precisely as I ought.

Some transgender women (I don’t know as much about men) are genetically XX, or even an anomalous XXY or XXXY. But most are genetically XY. I’ve no idea in my own case, as I’ve never been genetically tested. Some transgender women are physically somewhat feminine before transition (I was myself), but others are anything but.

There is some speculation among the scientific community that transgenderism may be related to brain chemistry but there is no consensus on the issue, and at least some people who have advanced such theses are presenting junk science even by established standards.

There are also a small but growing number of transgender people who prefer a mid-gender state, or who wish to transition for other reasons that the archetypical “woman trapped in a man’s body” (or vice versa). That described my situation perfectly, but some transgenders feel very much otherwise. And many TGs, certainly including myself, have no use for medicalised definitions thrown down by the established psychiatry of the therapeutic state.

So there is no scientific test for transgenderism, any more than there is for female or male homosexuality. The only real test of the issue is how a person feels and what she or he wants and chooses.

love and strife,

Lady Aster

{)(*)(}

*Freude, sch�ner G�tterfunken*
*Tochter aus Elysium,*
*Wir betreten feuertrunken,*
*Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!*
*Deine Zauber binden wieder*
*Was die Mode streng geteilt.*
*Alle Menschen werden Br�der*
*Wo dein sanfter Fl�gel weilt.*

email ms_shiris@…

Dear Lady Aster;

Nicley said and illuminating. One wonders if Dr. Mike has some psychological thoughts on the matter and or if he has treated patients or helped patients get themselves right about what they are inside their body and soul - sexually oriented wise.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian