"The human conscience cannot be put to the vote.�

Discussion
1

Marcy,
Yes, I thought it was interesting too. I was hoping it would have more impact. What would you do to raise the level of conversation or add a new dimension to the discussion?

We can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

In contrast, if we are content with the results, then we keep doing the same thing. It becomes a "lifestyle" and drives the operational paradigms to preserve the favorable conditions.

But if we don't like the results, the operational paradigms are traps of our lifestyles.

Even as it would relate to our "discussion", my post could be seen as something far more than an "interesting" departure from the "normal" modality.

Realistically, there is no way I can cover enough material with David by correspondence. That's why I asked him to call. The confirmation density of verbal communication is greater by several orders of magnitude. It approaches the confirmation density of the face to face that executives have their own jets to get.
John
707-623-6005

2

"We can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results" is not a convincing thought, in my opinion. The PAN party in Mexico, which is the major party that is most like a free-market party within Mexico, did keep "doing the same thing". It was a tiny minor party in the 1970's, but it kept doing the same thing and it won the Presidency in 2000. One can keep doing the same thing and yet experience wildly different results, through time. That is because the world keeps changing. Perhaps what wasn't working in the old world later becomes the right thing later when the world changes.

The U.S. and British suffrage movements kept on doing "the same thing" from 1848 until 1920. They won the fight, not because they changed tactics, but because the world around them changed.

Richard Winger

415-922-9779

PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147

3

Hi John,

Wow. Between your, David, and Richard's comments, there is a great deal to ponder as to why we Libertarians are doing what we are doing, and is our effort at all noticed by anyone but us.

First, as I have been saying for the last 10 years, I reiterate that political parties, like any other product, need to be marketed (presented) efficiently, or nothing happens. Secondly, I have also always maintained that we have (thank goodness, for the sake of enjoyable discussion) two main camps in the "spreading the word" department -- "let's keep doing what we are doing" camp, and the "it ain't workin'!" camp.

You ask what would I do to raise the level of conversation or add a new dimension to the discussion. Nothing. Since there is nothing anyone can do to transform core belief through conversation or discussion.

However, what one can do is take action based on whatever core belief we have. On this list we have members who are literally staking their "lives and fortunes" to defend ballot access for third parties in courts of law (such as Richard), we have amazing speakers who generously give a great deal of their time to communicate our message to the general public (such as Starchild), and we have foot soldiers like me who are willing to spend hours on end tabling or distributing flyers.

What we need is not more discussion, what we need is more folks to do whatever they want to do, in whatever manner they wish, using whatever talent they have (as long, as the saying goes, it is not illegal or fattening).

We have a business meeting once a month and an Activist List intended to nail down specific activities (when and where we will be distributing Gary Johnson door hangers, etc.) Anyone with a specific idea and a willingness to lead the charge carrying it out is welcome to ask Aubrey to place the specifics on the agenda for presentation at any one of the business meetings. Necessarily, that activity will carry the hallmarks of its generator/executor. As a rule, if a proposal is genuinely intended to benefit the LPSF, not some personal venture, and is within the LPSF's treasury budget guidelines, the proposal is welcomed.

As I stated previously, perhaps we might lack style, and could use volunteers with organizational or marketing ("outreach") experience to help plan and execute specific activities.

As I have also stated often, we also need registered Libertarians (Big L) in order to keep our party on the ballot; and we need LPSF members at $25 per year, to allow for activities that cost money (visit www.lpsf.org for an application and where to send your $25).

So, you asked, John. If you read this far, you have my highest appreciation.

Marcy

4

I love this discussion.

I think the facts speak for themselves, "it ain't working". There will always be exceptions to point to, but the hard reality is that doing the same thing more often than not will not yield a better result. For every exception there are thousands of failure stories to offset it.

If the goal is to remain pure, grow organically albeit at an extremely slow pace, then the current course is the right one.

However, if having a real impact is the goal then some changes might be good.

Some obvious examples of steps that might be taken to achieve the goals of growth and garnering attention, members and money might include the following steps:

Random acts by members, however well meaning, if not co-ordinated is wasted effort. Efforts must be co-ordinated to achieve the desired goals.

Membership is key. A plan to increase the dues paying card carrying members means a concerted effort to attract people. This means presenting the LPSF message to the local community in a clearly designed effort. The approach must be presented in way that allows people to hear the message and not messenger.

Random tables and speaking opportunities are too passive and therefore wasted effort, a single directed message aimed at the most likely groups to be swayed is far more effective. For example, if we take one SFLP objective and ask which groups are most likely to benefit from the success of this objective, we can create efforts to reach that group. Share the message and guide them to join the fight.

Key battles must be selected based on what is important to this local community and what is likely to be successful. Early battles must be designed to win and not just to fight. Wining battles brings in new members, i.e. what do potential LP members in the Bayview need and what do potential LP members in the Marina need to fight for? What do local businesses need to fight for? Let's fight with them, win with them and bring them into the fold.

Creating community events (neighborhood forums, luncheons, mixers, etc) that bring people out can be carefully designed to create interest in the SFLP. The regular monthly meeting is important, but not "sexy" enough for the vast majority, the goal being to reach out to people who are not already members.

More members and more fund raising means LPSF Supervisors, maybe even an LP mayor. I don't see that as being too far off, if we design a fight for it, just like strategists from the two major parties do every day.

Talk is easy. But if the "this ain't working" group would like to work to create a new plan, I would love to move beyond the discussion phase and am willing to stake my "life and fortune" with you.

BTW John, I left you a VM.

5

Fantastic, David! I'm in! Incredibly, LPSF does not have written specific objectives as far as I know. All we go by is we want to "spread liberty." Nor, to my knowledge, have we identified specific communities. To make matters worse, some of us have felt that outreach to one community might jeopardize our efforts with another, given our unique stance on social vs. economic issues. I personally welcome your offer of assistance, and am sure our other members are equally grateful.

A note on the LPSF Yahoo e-mail lists, so nobody gets a lot of e-mails on things they may not be interested in, or feels left out of any goings on:

This "Discussion List" has traditionally been reserved for discussing issues, articles, quotes, etc. Participants may not necessarily want to receive a lot of e-mails with nitty gritty information on LPSF activities. This list is public, and what is posted here can often be found on the Internet. Anyone can join via our website www.lpsf.org. (The list is moderated, but only to ensure civility and consistency with the list's overall topic of political discussion.)

The "Activist List" is where we post the nitty gritty of WORK we are planning or doing. Participants may not wish to receive a lot of e-mails talking about a topic. Here is where we post our meeting agenda and minutes for approval (after approval, these are posted on our website). The Activist List is private and contents cannot be found on the Internet. People who want to participate in the "doing" part of the LPSF can ask to join. (Moderators have the same requirement for civility and on-topic posting for this list as for the Discussion List.)

A third list, the "Announce List" is also public and accessible to all, but limited to only brief announcements of meetings and LPSF events posted by officers of the LPSF.

A lot of folks belong to all three lists -- so they can "talk" when they want, "do" when they want, and just be informed of events when that's all they want.

Ah, yes, we also have a public Facebook page that could use some new posters -- "LPSF - Libertarian Party of San Francisco."

Marcy

6

Hi David! We certainly could use some of your suggestions and ideas to give the LPSF a boost. Other than the recent surge in activity from the ballot measure boom, the LPSF is in a bit of a rut and could benefit from a fresh perspective. Do you want to present your ideas at the next monthly meeting and, if so, how much time would you like? I will be more than happy to put you on the agenda.

Thanks!
Aubrey

7

Hi Aubrey: Thank you. I will put most of thoughts in writing to save on speaking time, so 4 or 5 minutes, including discussion would be fine, I know you have a busy calendar.

David