Re: Proposed Resolution

Thanks Richard for bringing this forward. I agree it would behoove us to say something on this consequential matter. And I approve of the general direction of the resolution as written. Given the momentous and unprecedented nature of the situation however, and that it has the feel (at least to me) of one of those historical junctures in which a lot hinges on the manner in which it is resolved, it seems appropriate to me that “a decent respect for the opinions of humanity” (to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence) make it desirable to elaborate a bit further on the reasons for taking the highly unusual step of impeaching someone whose term is less than two weeks from over. So I decided to take a stab at writing up a somewhat longer resolution that goes into a bit more detail on that.

The one substantive point on which I differ is with the language suggesting Donald Trump be disqualified from holding public office in the future. It’s very tempting of course, as I strongly agree he is unfit to hold such office. But I’m not sure a legal way to do this currently exists, and I have deep reservations about seeing one created, or even a precedent being set from the use of existing law (should such exist) of ceding to the political establishment the power to prevent future voters from considering a particular candidate, especially one who clearly does have a fair level of public support.

If Trump were banned from running again, I think it could actually increase his public standing, and the extent to which people support his legacy. Potential rivals for the 2024 Republican nomination might be more likely to do that if he can’t run again, and they want to be seen as taking up his mantle, or getting his support without having to worry about running against him. And singling him out as the sole person not allowed to run could be seen as his opponents going too far and just reinforce his status as a kind of cult figure.

As it is, any aura of invincibility he might have had will be in tatters. Many of his supporters are refusing to continue standing by him. He’ll be even older in four years (and who knows how his health will be by then), and in the meantime I suspect he’s going to have his hands full trying to fend off his creditors, as well as the lawsuits, and possible criminal actions that will no doubt be brought against him. Better the narrative going forward be that Trump’s political goose is cooked, and that he no longer poses enough of a threat to bother disqualifying him from running again, than to legally single him out in a manner that could just reinforce his status as some kind of cult figure among his supporters.

Anyway, here’s the language I came up with. I’m copying this to the Activist list for general consideration, and we can talk at our meeting today about whether we want to adopt a resolution, either one of these or something different if anyone has other ideas.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···
 
Whereas United States president Donald Trump has attempted to subvert the results of the November 2020 election and remain in power by

• filing dozens of frivolous lawsuits seeking to overturn vote tallies in multiple states, with his campaign lawyers making false claims that were almost entirely dismissed by courts including by judges appointed by Trump himself;

• attempting to pressure the Georgia Secretary of State in a recorded phone call into coming up with over 10,000 additional votes for him and telling him he did not care how they were obtained;

• openly floating the "trial balloon" of saying, upon congratulating the dictator of China for getting himself appointed president for life, that it was an idea worth looking into

• refusing to concede the election and cooperate with a peaceful transition of power in the face of overwhelming evidence that he lost; and finally and most egregiously:

• Inciting his supporters to storm the capitol building for the purpose of forcibly disrupting the legitimate certification of the election results

In short, having repeatedly shown that he has no respect for democracy or the will of the electorate and is manifestly unfit to serve as head of state in a democratic republic,

And whereas he has during the past four years and more made abundantly plain to the world the nature of his character, including his pettiness, his lack of empathy, his willingness to make extreme threats including to against other countries, his willingness to pardon war criminals found guilty of murdering civilians, and his desperation to hold onto power, we do not trust how far he might go in attempting to hang onto that power, and in a man with nuclear weapons at his command, this is frankly unacceptable.

We therefore call for his immediate resignation.

And knowing that to do the right thing by resigning would be highly uncharacteristic of Donald Trump's behavior up to this point, 

We call upon Congress, vice president Donald Pence, and the members of the cabinet to begin without delay the proceedings outlined in the 25th Amendment of the Constitution to remove him as president.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

On Jan 9, 2021, at 6:09 AM, Richard Fast wrote:

I would like to propose that the LPSF take up this resolution as well.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Richard Fast fastrichard77@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:46 PM
Subject: Proposed Resolution
To: Kevin Moore kevin@plentymoore.com, Rich Vanier bigrich42@gmail.com, Sandra Kallander sandra@kallander.info, d b dennisbelillo@hotmail.com, ‘Kurt Schultz’ thipdar@comcast.net

All,

I move that the ccclp adopt the following resolution:

Whereas Libertarians condemn aggression and seek peace,
Whereas Donald Trump has incited his supporters to violent protests in the nation’s capitol on January 6, 2021,
Whereas Donald Trump has fabricated all allegations of election fraud and has shown no proof to his claims,
Whereas Donald Trump has displayed through his words and deeds that he is unfit for the office of the presidency,
Therefore the Contra Costa County Libertarian Party supports his impeachment, swift removal, and disqualification from holding future public office.

Sincerely,

Richard Fast
Secretary
CCCLP

Richard responded:

Starchild, I’m fine with your version as well, although it does feel longwinded. It is my hope that we can pass such a resolution at today’s meeting. If anyone wants to propose amendments, I’d encourage them to write them up before the meeting so as to keep the meeting brief and concise.

My response:

Inciting his supporters to storm the capitol building for the purpose of forcibly disrupting the legitimate certification of the election results

Is it possible to tighten this up? I don’t think we should set precedent that asking people to “protest the vote” is the same as inciting them to storm the capitol.

Twitter’s justification for Trump’s lifetime ban (“In context, it was violence to say, ‘I’m not going to the inauguration.’”) was weak. I want to avoid the same mistake.

Greg,

It looks like you posted something here, but the graphics are not showing up for me.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Jan 9, 2021, at 4:28 PM, Gregory Michael via LPSF Forum wrote:

greg
January 10

Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

Previous Replies

jeff
January 9
Richard responded:

Starchild, I’m fine with your version as well, although it does feel longwinded. It is my hope that we can pass such a resolution at today’s meeting. If anyone wants to propose amendments, I’d encourage them to write them up before the meeting so as to keep the meeting brief and concise.

My response:

Inciting his supporters to storm the capitol building for the purpose of forcibly disrupting the legitimate certification of the election results

Is it possible to tighten this up? I don’t think we should set precedent that asking people to “protest the vote” is the same as inciting them to storm the capitol.

Twitter’s justification for Trump’s lifetime ban (“In context, it was violence to say, ‘I’m not going to the inauguration.’”) was weak. I want to avoid the same mistake.

Starchild
January 9
Thanks Richard for bringing this forward. I agree it would behoove us to say something on this consequential matter. And I approve of the general direction of the resolution as written. Given the momentous and unprecedented nature of the situation however, and that it has the feel (at least to me) of one of those historical junctures in which a lot hinges on the manner in which it is resolved, it seems appropriate to me that “a decent respect for the opinions of humanity” (to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence) make it desirable to elaborate a bit further on the reasons for taking the highly unusual step of impeaching someone whose term is less than two weeks from over. So I decided to take a stab at writing up a somewhat longer resolution that goes into a bit more detail on that.

The one substantive point on which I differ is with the language suggesting Donald Trump be disqualified from holding public office in the future. It’s very tempting of course, as I strongly agree he is unfit to hold such office. But I’m not sure a legal way to do this currently exists, and I have deep reservations about seeing one created, or even a precedent being set from the use of existing law (should such exist) of ceding to the political establishment the power to prevent future voters from considering a particular candidate, especially one who clearly does have a fair level of public support.

If Trump were banned from running again, I think it could actually increase his public standing, and the extent to which people support his legacy. Potential rivals for the 2024 Republican nomination might be more likely to do that if he can’t run again, and they want to be seen as taking up his mantle, or getting his support without having to worry about running against him. And singling him out as the sole person not allowed to run could be seen as his opponents going too far and just reinforce his status as a kind of cult figure.

As it is, any aura of invincibility he might have had will be in tatters. Many of his supporters are refusing to continue standing by him. He’ll be even older in four years (and who knows how his health will be by then), and in the meantime I suspect he’s going to have his hands full trying to fend off his creditors, as well as the lawsuits, and possible criminal actions that will no doubt be brought against him. Better the narrative going forward be that Trump’s political goose is cooked, and that he no longer poses enough of a threat to bother disqualifying him from running again, than to legally single him out in a manner that could just reinforce his status as some kind of cult figure among his supporters.

Anyway, here’s the language I came up with. I’m copying this to the Activist list for general consideration, and we can talk at our meeting today about whether we want to adopt a resolution, either one of these or something different if anyone has other ideas.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

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Never mind Greg, was able to see on the Forum that it was a screenshot of the information you posted in chat during the meeting yesterday, about one of Trump’s lawyers saying he was withdrawing as plaintiff’s counsel because his client was trying to get him to act illegally.

Unfortunately, the original text of my version of the resolution is not coming up for me, either in email or on the forum. Only part of my message shows up via email, and clicking for “more details” takes me to the web page, but the end of my original email isn’t visible there either.

Jeff, do you know whether there’s a way to make people’s entire posts come through on email? It is inconvenient/annoying to have to go to the website every time there’s a longer message. And in my case when I do go to the site, and click on the three dots to see more, the rest still isn’t showing up.

So if someone can post the resolution language I suggested again via email so I can work on modifying it, I’d appreciate it. (At the meeting yesterday, we voted to approve the language I came up with, but with a couple added modifications at the request of Mike Denny and Alex Mills, which I was authorized to work on.)

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

···

On Jan 10, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Starchild via LPSF Forum wrote:

Starchild
January 10
Greg,

It looks like you posted something here, but the graphics are not showing up for me.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

··· (click for more details)
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In Reply To

greg
January 10
[motion_withdraw]
Previous Replies

greg
January 10

jeff
January 9
Richard responded:

Starchild, I’m fine with your version as well, although it does feel longwinded. It is my hope that we can pass such a resolution at today’s meeting. If anyone wants to propose amendments, I’d encourage them to write them up before the meeting so as to keep the meeting brief and concise.

My response:

Inciting his supporters to storm the capitol building for the purpose of forcibly disrupting the legitimate certification of the election results

Is it possible to tighten this up? I don’t think we should set precedent that asking people to “protest the vote” is the same as inciting them to storm the capitol.

Twitter’s justification for Trump’s lifetime ban (“In context, it was violence to say, ‘I’m not going to the inauguration.’”) was weak. I want to avoid the same mistake.

Starchild
January 9
Thanks Richard for bringing this forward. I agree it would behoove us to say something on this consequential matter. And I approve of the general direction of the resolution as written. Given the momentous and unprecedented nature of the situation however, and that it has the feel (at least to me) of one of those historical junctures in which a lot hinges on the manner in which it is resolved, it seems appropriate to me that “a decent respect for the opinions of humanity” (to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence) make it desirable to elaborate a bit further on the reasons for taking the highly unusual step of impeaching someone whose term is less than two weeks from over. So I decided to take a stab at writing up a somewhat longer resolution that goes into a bit more detail on that.

The one substantive point on which I differ is with the language suggesting Donald Trump be disqualified from holding public office in the future. It’s very tempting of course, as I strongly agree he is unfit to hold such office. But I’m not sure a legal way to do this currently exists, and I have deep reservations about seeing one created, or even a precedent being set from the use of existing law (should such exist) of ceding to the political establishment the power to prevent future voters from considering a particular candidate, especially one who clearly does have a fair level of public support.

If Trump were banned from running again, I think it could actually increase his public standing, and the extent to which people support his legacy. Potential rivals for the 2024 Republican nomination might be more likely to do that if he can’t run again, and they want to be seen as taking up his mantle, or getting his support without having to worry about running against him. And singling him out as the sole person not allowed to run could be seen as his opponents going too far and just reinforce his status as a kind of cult figure.

As it is, any aura of invincibility he might have had will be in tatters. Many of his supporters are refusing to continue standing by him. He’ll be even older in four years (and who knows how his health will be by then), and in the meantime I suspect he’s going to have his hands full trying to fend off his creditors, as well as the lawsuits, and possible criminal actions that will no doubt be brought against him. Better the narrative going forward be that Trump’s political goose is cooked, and that he no longer poses enough of a threat to bother disqualifying him from running again, than to legally single him out in a manner that could just reinforce his status as some kind of cult figure among his supporters.

Anyway, here’s the language I came up with. I’m copying this to the Activist list for general consideration, and we can talk at our meeting today about whether we want to adopt a resolution, either one of these or something different if anyone has other ideas.

Love & Liberty,

((( starchild )))

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