RE: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Types of social systems & progression betw een them (was: property rights & conflict resolution)

Starchild:

I'm not sure we have any examples of "anarchy eroding into uncivilized anarchy"--do you? Sometimes, as in Somalia (or Iraq?), "anarchy" arises with the collapse of a central government, but under conditions of great violence and after a long history of extreme injustice. If everything isn't immediately hunky-dory, "anarchy" takes the blame.

When anarchy is replaced, it seems to be by governments (compare the replacement of the Articles of Confederation by the Constitution). As for Iceland, simplifying from Byock, and giving it my own slant: The introduction of Christianity in the 11th century was the beginning of the end. It had two effects. (a) It gave outsiders a voice in Iceland's internal affairs. Over time, chieftains became chieftain-priests, and their selection had to be approved by Rome. (b) It increased stratification in Icelandic society. The new chieftain-priests were more powerful than chieftains formerly were; the number of chiefs was drastically reduced, from maybe 30 or more to half a dozen; and the Church itself became a very powerful entity, and large landholder. With a smaller number of more powerful chiefs, it was harder to get justice done, especially with a grievance against one of the newly powerful parties. Eventually, someone with a grievance appealed to the king of Norway for help, and the country came under Norwegian control. The shift was gradual, since the Norwegian kings for the next couple of centuries were benign. But there was never any threat, as far as I can tell, of a deterioration into "uncivilized anarchy."

Lord of the Flies. :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Steve
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Michael,

  I admit I have no examples of civilized anarchy eroding into uncivilized anarchy. My linking of the two was intuitive, and perhaps wrong. Though without external governments, such as Norway or the Papal Authority in Rome, it's an open question what Iceland would have done. Is it fair to assume that the anarchists on the list are proposing a world-wide system of anarchy for all people, with no external governments? Or are you conceding the legitimacy of the existing system of nation-states by only seeking to create this system in a single nation, the United States? 8)

  Prior to the Constitution, the American colonists lived in various smaller independent nation-states called "Massachusetts," "Virginia," etc., as opposed to living in an anarchy, wouldn't you agree?

  Besides "The Lord of the Flies," another example of what I would call an "uncivilized anarchy" (though not nearly as bad) is in Neal Stephenson's popular sci-fi book "Snowcrash."

Yours in liberty,
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