RE: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Structure In The Pursuit of Strategy

Discussion
1

The LP's registered voter list comes from the same source, the only source
for this data: The California Secretary of State's office. This is the
same office that provides the data to the counties. I agree that it's
highly unreliable, but it's a government operation, so I don't expect much
from them. That's why we no longer send blind mailings to registered
voters, since so many of the addresses are bad. Having also worked as a
precinct inspector, clerk, and judge since 1996, I know that database
corrections do not always get updated, and there are plenty of gravestones
in the registered voter database. I've worked at the same precinct for
three different elections since 2000, and some of the same dead people keep
showing up on the list, even though I know that I submitted the corrections
for these deceased voters three years ago.

Still $3 is an amazing price. Alameda County charges $50 for the same data
on CD-ROM, and $1 per page if you want a hardcopy printout (useful sometimes
for candidates who just want precincts in the district for which they are
running).

But no matter whether you get the list from the LPC or your own county, it
is still essentially the same database. But if you get the entire list of
all registered voters for $3 and it is only 60 days old as opposed to 90
days, you would be better off going to your local registrar.

Terry Floyd

2

I think the $3 "at cost" price for the voters CD is only for candidates, and
anyone else would have to pay more. Fortunately, we do have a candidate for
Mayor right now. I got 2 CDs myself, one at the beginning, and another at
the end, of my campaign last year. Three months apart -- exact same data.
I guess you get what you pay for. :frowning:

At least it explains why I keep getting all of these Democratic National
Committee and Planned Parenthood mailings -- the government lists are so
bad, that everyone just buys lists from "like-minded" groups -- in my case,
Human Rights Campaign and ACLU (both of which did so much stupid stuff
during the month I was on vacation, that I'll not likely renew either).

BTW, Terry, I haven't looked at the state LP database lately -- does it
include things like electoral districts? Just for state, or also for local?
I do know that at least the local elections department CD has the 11 local
districts of SF, so it's easy to filter the Access database.

Rob

3

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The LP's registered voter list comes from the same source, the only source
for this data: The California Secretary of State's office.

The LPC list is also (I believe) processed by a company called Labels and
Lists; they are supposed to weed out bad addresses and associate phone
numbers. When this processed list was first released, San Francisco came
out with 92 registered Libertarians. (There are a lot of bad addresses in
the database, but they're not *that* bad.)

My understanding is that, though the Sec'y of State maintains the canonical
list, the county registrars actually maintain them (sending corrections,
etc.). SF seems to do a pretty good job of weeding out bad addresses.

~Chris
- --
Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA

4

As a political party, I believe we are legally entitled to two free requests of the voter data per election cycle, unless this has changed — that's the way it was a few years ago when I was getting the CDs, and I thought we were still able to get them free. My understanding is that this was part of the state elections code, but perhaps it is (was?) specific to SF.

Yours in liberty,
                        <<< Starchild >>>

The LP's registered voter list comes from the same source, the only source for this data: The California Secretary of State's office. This is the same office that provides the data to the counties. I agree that it's highly unreliable, but it's a government operation, so I don't expect much from them. That's why we no longer send blind mailings to registered voters, since so many of the addresses are bad. Having also worked as a precinct inspector, clerk, and judge since 1996, I know that database corrections do not always get updated, and there are plenty of gravestones in the registered voter database. I've worked at the same precinct for three different elections since 2000, and some of the same dead people keep showing up on the list, even though I know that I submitted the corrections for these deceased voters three years ago.

Still $3 is an amazing price. Alameda County charges $50 for the same data on CD-ROM, and $1 per page if you want a hardcopy printout (useful sometimes for candidates who just want precincts in the district for which they are running).

But no matter whether you get the list from the LPC or your own county, it is still essentially the same database. But if you get the entire list of all registered voters for $3 and it is only 60 days old as opposed to 90 days, you would be better off going to your local registrar.

Terry Floyd

From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:crism@…]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:23 AM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Structure In The Pursuit of Strategy

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>Getting that info from the Registrar of Voters is a pain in the ass,
>and they usually only give you free access to the data 30 days before
>a general election. Any other time of the year, they usually charge
>you for either a CD-ROM or a printout of the list.

San Francisco is actually quite good about this. The CD costs $3.

>But the LPC has all of that information available for activists.

The LPC's records for San Francisco are highly unreliable. This was the
case when they first went on line, and have never quite caught up. I
prefer to get the data from the horse's mouth (even when it's the Trojan
horse of government).

Thanks for the info, though.

~Chris
- --
Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA
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<image.tiff>

5

As a political party, I believe we are legally entitled to two free
requests of the voter data per election cycle, unless this has changed
— that's the way it was a few years ago when I was getting the CDs, and
I thought we were still able to get them free. My understanding is that
this was part of the state elections code, but perhaps it is (was?)
specific to SF.

Yours in liberty,
                        <<< Starchild >>>

The LP's registered voter list comes from the same source, the only
source for this data: The California Secretary of State's office.
This is the same office that provides the data to the counties. I
agree that it's highly unreliable, but it's a government operation, so
I don't expect much from them. That's why we no longer send blind
mailings to registered voters, since so many of the addresses are
bad. Having also worked as a precinct inspector, clerk, and judge
since 1996, I know that database corrections do not always get
updated, and there are plenty of gravestones in the registered voter
database. I've worked at the same precinct for three different
elections since 2000, and some of the same dead people keep showing up
on the list, even though I know that I submitted the corrections for
these deceased voters three years ago.

Still $3 is an amazing price. Alameda County charges $50 for the same
data on CD-ROM, and $1 per page if you want a hardcopy printout
(useful sometimes for candidates who just want precincts in the
district for which they are running).

But no matter whether you get the list from the LPC or your own
county, it is still essentially the same database. But if you get the
entire list of all registered voters for $3 and it is only 60 days old
as opposed to 90 days, you would be better off going to your local
registrar.

Terry Floyd

From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:crism@maden.org]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:23 AM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Structure In The Pursuit of Strategy

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>Getting that info from the Registrar of Voters is a pain in the ass,
>and they usually only give you free access to the data 30 days before
>a general election. Any other time of the year, they usually charge
>you for either a CD-ROM or a printout of the list.

San Francisco is actually quite good about this. The CD costs $3.

>But the LPC has all of that information available for activists.

The LPC's records for San Francisco are highly unreliable. This was
the
case when they first went on line, and have never quite caught up. I
prefer to get the data from the horse's mouth (even when it's the
Trojan
horse of government).

Thanks for the info, though.

~Chris
- --
Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA
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Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8

iQA/AwUBP0m5SqxS+CWv7FjaEQL7JQCfSZmD33su2EbZTCPQn5gJES7UlU8AoJcX
X1gyFGNJg6yMFAzfhcaD6iew
=YHTB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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6

Rob,

  Are you handling the database these days, or is Bryce still doing that? If we've got a handle on it with the new software, it would be nice to see regular tracking of the data (i.e. how many registered Libs in each district compared to other parties).

              <<< Starchild >>>

I think the $3 "at cost" price for the voters CD is only for candidates, and anyone else would have to pay more. Fortunately, we do have a candidate for Mayor right now. I got 2 CDs myself, one at the beginning, and another at the end, of my campaign last year. Three months apart -- exact same data. I guess you get what you pay for. :frowning:

At least it explains why I keep getting all of these Democratic National Committee and Planned Parenthood mailings -- the government lists are so bad, that everyone just buys lists from "like-minded" groups -- in my case, Human Rights Campaign and ACLU (both of which did so much stupid stuff during the month I was on vacation, that I'll not likely renew either).

BTW, Terry, I haven't looked at the state LP database lately -- does it include things like electoral districts? Just for state, or also for local? I do know that at least the local elections department CD has the 11 local districts of SF, so it's easy to filter the Access database.

Rob

From: tlfloyd3 [mailto:tlfloyd3@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:21 AM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Structure In The Pursuit of Strategy

The LP's registered voter list comes from the same source, the only source for this data: The California Secretary of State's office. This is the same office that provides the data to the counties. I agree that it's highly unreliable, but it's a government operation, so I don't expect much from them. That's why we no longer send blind mailings to registered voters, since so many of the addresses are bad. Having also worked as a precinct inspector, clerk, and judge since 1996, I know that database corrections do not always get updated, and there are plenty of gravestones in the registered voter database. I've worked at the same precinct for three different elections since 2000, and some of the same dead people keep showing up on the list, even though I know that I submitted the corrections for these deceased voters three years ago.

Still $3 is an amazing price. Alameda County charges $50 for the same data on CD-ROM, and $1 per page if you want a hardcopy printout (useful sometimes for candidates who just want precincts in the district for which they are running).

But no matter whether you get the list from the LPC or your own county, it is still essentially the same database. But if you get the entire list of all registered voters for $3 and it is only 60 days old as opposed to 90 days, you would be better off going to your local registrar.

Terry Floyd

From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:crism@…]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:23 AM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Structure In The Pursuit of Strategy

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>Getting that info from the Registrar of Voters is a pain in the ass,
>and they usually only give you free access to the data 30 days before
>a general election. Any other time of the year, they usually charge
>you for either a CD-ROM or a printout of the list.

San Francisco is actually quite good about this. The CD costs $3.

>But the LPC has all of that information available for activists.

The LPC's records for San Francisco are highly unreliable. This was the
case when they first went on line, and have never quite caught up. I
prefer to get the data from the horse's mouth (even when it's the Trojan
horse of government).

Thanks for the info, though.

~Chris
- --
Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8

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X1gyFGNJg6yMFAzfhcaD6iew
=YHTB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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<image.tiff>

7

It's still all Bryce's domain. I've not heard anything since before my trip
to China. If you'd like, we can continue the discussion of LPSF database
issues on the activists list.