It might just be time to realize that the LP is an ideological movement
and not a political one. Politics won't solve anything so what's the
point of it? Those in the LP who think our movement is political may be
deluded and this trend within the LP certainly reinforces that thinking.
I'm perfectly content to be an ideological Libertarian disconnected from
a political party.
Anyone else have something to say about this?
Mike
Dear Mike Or Anyone Else;
Not having been there and reading only various dis-jointed blog reports is it possible for anyone who was there to give a coherent unbiased report of just what the heck went on?
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
For me, the problem with this perspective is that there are about
83,000 people statewide who have registered with the LP, many
presumably under the impression that the LP is an actual political
party, with the intention of obtaining power and running the civil
machinery. Operating the Party as if it were a philosophy club has
seemed to me for a long time to be a bit of a fraud.
Regards,
Allen Rice
It might just be time to realize that the LP is an ideological
movement
and not a political one. Politics won't solve anything so what's
the
point of it? Those in the LP who think our movement is political
may be
deluded and this trend within the LP certainly reinforces that
thinking.
I'm perfectly content to be an ideological Libertarian
disconnected from
a political party.
Anyone else have something to say about this?
Mike
________________________________
From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-
On Behalf Of Morey Straus
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:15 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Convention CarnageIf you weren't there to see the wreck first hand, there is plenty
of
Ron,
The most complete report I have seen is the series posted here:
http://thirdpartywatch.com/2006/07/04/joe-magyers-convention-journal/
Yours,
Morey
Dear Mike Or Anyone Else;
Not having been there and reading only various dis-jointed blog
reports is it possible for anyone who was there to give a coherent
unbiased report of just what the heck went on?
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianFrom: Mike Denny <mike@...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2006 10:26:42 PM
Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] Convention CarnageIt might just be time to realize that the LP is an ideological
movement and not a political one. Politics wonât solve anything so
whatâs the point of it? Those in the LP who think our movement is
political may be deluded and this trend within the LP certainly
reinforces that thinking. Iâm perfectly content to be an ideological
Libertarian disconnected from a political party.
Anyone else have something to say about this?
Mike
From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Morey Straus
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:15 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Convention CarnageIf you weren't there to see the wreck first hand, there is plenty of
commentary:
Mike,
You might appreciate these thoughts from David Nolan. I wish I had
read and distributed this at the convention. Apologies if it has
already been posted.
http://www.ernesthancock.com/archive/?2006-06-18-Bonus
Yours,
Morey
With all the respect due Mr. Nolan, this is just a statement of the
problem.
As I posted to another group just a few minutes ago:
"It seems to me that, historically, ideas have come into being, were
taken up by political activists here and there, these activists
found each other, and _as a consequence of and means to amplify
their activism_, political parties were formed.
The LP has had this backward for more than 30 years, expecting that
forming the Party would get the ideas into general circulation and
create the activists. It does not appear to have worked; odd to
have expected that it would.
At last, the ideas are going to have to create the Party. Or not."
Allen Rice
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "hd_fxst2000"
<morey.straus@...> wrote:
I have been waiting to see if any of you who attended the Convention
came up with, as Ron Getty said, "a coherent unbiased report." So
far, I have not seen such as report. Any report of mine will be
equally incoherent and biased, since the actions that took place at
the Convention were, unfortunately, just that. But, here goes:
1. Dr. Carl S. Milsted Jr, Webmaster of Reformthelp.org, has been
working very hard for quite a while (he mentioned introducing limited
reform at the Atlanta Covention) gathering converts, and
consolidating realistic objectives for the Libertarian Party, which
are in keeping with the functions of a "real" political party. Dr.
Milsted has gathered adherents from Libertarians who are tire of the
following:
a. A "Political Party" that focuses on ideology rather than on the
functions performed by traditional parties.
b. Controlling documents (By-Laws and Platform) that are long on
rhetoric (very, very long!!) and short on realistic objectives.
c. A Pledge the scares the heck out of most prospective "members"
(what are "members" doing in a political party anyway?).
d. A Statement of Principle that could lead outsiders (prospective
supporters) to think we deal in cults.
e. A delusional "World's Smallest Political Quiz", which asks
questions that are skewed enough to place even hard core socialists
into the Libertarian quadrant.
2. So, after years of work and a very well oiled approach (with
which the complacent ideologues could not possibly compete) Dr.
Milsted dropped his WMD at the Portland Convention, and achieved the
following:
a. Removing as much of the Platform as possilbe, by consolidating a
number of issues into a few, and by in effect tabling into a far
distant future the issues that proved near and dear to die-hards.
b. Leaving the Platform and By-Laws enough of a clean slate from
which a new, much more "traditional party" LP can rise from the ashes.
c. Throwing a bone to die-hard libs. by not fighting as hard as he
could have to remove the Pledge.
d. Modifying the Statement of Principle so that its meaning clearly
changes the meaning of the party itself. "Unlimited goverment" is
sure not the same as "Omnipotent state!" Thus, not only OK but
essential to have some taxes and some limits to immigration.
3. Since Aaron Star's last ditch, last second motion to remove ALL
planks from the Platform and leave only the modified Statement of
Principle and the Conclusion, failed to receive enough votes, the
planks that were not consolidated (maintly Taxation and the National
Debt) will have to be worked on to be presented at the next National
Convention.
4. I loved the following statement at the Convention by Mark Hincke,
to the effect that no matter what the formers and reformers spend
their time doing at Conventions, the LP is the result of absolutely
nothing they do or do not do, but is the result of the actions of the
activists on the ground!
Marcy
-- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "hd_fxst2000" <morey.straus@...>
wrote:
Ron,
The most complete report I have seen is the series posted here:
http://thirdpartywatch.com/2006/07/04/joe-magyers-convention-
journal/
Yours,
Morey--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Ron Getty <tradergroupe@>
wrote:
>
> Dear Mike Or Anyone Else;
>
> Not having been there and reading only various dis-jointed blog
reports is it possible for anyone who was there to give a coherent
unbiased report of just what the heck went on?
>
> Ron Getty
> SF Libertarian
>
> From: Mike Denny <mike@>
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 3, 2006 10:26:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] Convention Carnage
>
>
> It might just be time to realize that the LP is an ideological
movement and not a political one. Politics wonât solve anything so
whatâs the point of it? Those in the LP who think our movement is
political may be deluded and this trend within the LP certainly
reinforces that thinking. Iâm perfectly content to be an
ideological
Libertarian disconnected from a political party.
>
> Anyone else have something to say about this?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Morey Straus
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:15 PM
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Convention Carnage
>
> If you weren't there to see the wreck first hand, there is plenty
of
This is encouraging. I think it may be worth becoming a state member again just to do my part to help this effort. My major concern is whether part of this effort will be to strip the platform of it's pro social liberty positions. Were there any indications of that?
- Steve
Hi Steve,
You ask whether there was indication that the reformers wanted to
diminish Libertarian stands on social issues. My feeling would
be "yes." But then again, the entire objective of the reform was to
tone down all stands on all issues.
For example, the proposal for consolidation of the Platform 1.2 and
1.3 into "Crime and Victimless Crime," resulted in rather vague
language that did retain the gist of the Libertarian stand, "Repeal
criminal laws which work against the protection of the rights and
freedoms of American citizens, residents or visitors, particularly
laws which create a crime where no victim exists." But, the proposal
also contained rather oblique statements such as "Individuals retain
the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves in the
exercise of free choice" (note the "assume risk of *harm*).
I believe the above proposal failed. However, the proposal
on "Sexuality and Gender" passed with some language modifications. It
stated in part that "sexuality or gender should have no impact on the
rights of individuals," and "prejudice will fade when marriage and
other personal relationships are treated as private contracts, solely
defined by the individuals involved..."
Although I do not personally like these changes, I could live with
them should the majority of Libertarins OK them.
Marcy
> 1. Dr. Carl S. Milsted Jr, Webmaster of Reformthelp.org, has been
> working very hard for quite a while (he mentioned introducing
limited
> reform at the Atlanta Covention) gathering converts, and
> consolidating realistic objectives for the Libertarian Party,
which
> are in keeping with the functions of a "real" political party. Dr.
> Milsted has gathered adherents from Libertarians who are tire of
the
> following:
>
> a. A "Political Party" that focuses on ideology rather than on
the
> functions performed by traditional parties.
>
> b. Controlling documents (By-Laws and Platform) that are long on
> rhetoric (very, very long!!) and short on realistic objectives.
>
> c. A Pledge the scares the heck out of most prospective "members"
> (what are "members" doing in a political party anyway?).
>
> d. A Statement of Principle that could lead outsiders
(prospective
> supporters) to think we deal in cults.
This is encouraging. I think it may be worth becoming a state
member
again just to do my part to help this effort. My major concern is
whether part of this effort will be to strip the platform of it's
pro
The takeover of the LP by conservatives that I have been predicting for
10 years (even if the LP News has declined to publish my letters and
articles warning about that) has finally occurred. Owing to a fluke of
circumstances, it wasn't complete; we are left with a bizarre fragment
of a platform which pleases no one, but that will soon be eliminated as
well. I see no chance that anything like the original platform will
ever be restored, just because conservatives already outnumber
libertarians in the Party, and there are vastly more of them potentially
to be recruited. What I haven't figured out is why they want to take
over the LP and change it, rather than working with a more conservative
party to start with, like the Constitution Party. Can anyone clue me
in?
Starchild is right to make a conceptual distinction between conservatism
and reformism, but it is no accident that the two groups are so largely
overlapping. Reformism is the embodiment of the conservative spirit or
style. Temperamentally, conservatives are non-boat-rockers; they fear
large, sudden changes, even if they are in the right direction.
However, while we see governments growing incrementally almost
everywhere, it is hard to find examples of governments gradually
shrinking. Ignorance and denial pretty much guarantee that government
power will increase until it reaches a tipping point where most citizens
begin to feel seriously oppressed; then there will be either a
revolution or a collapse, depending on the sympathies of the enforcing
agents. I see no reason to expect the U.S. to depart from this pattern.
Thus there will come a time--it will appear as sudden--when the general
population is angrily demanding the abolition of the IRS--and the
Libertarian Party, behind the curve, is calling, with idiotic and
grotesque irrelevance, for a 10% tax cut.
I know that some reformers regard the Statement of Principles as an
adequate guide for candidates in preparing their own campaign platforms.
But the generalities of the Statement of Principles are as subject to
interpretation as the Bible; terms like freedom and individual rights
pervade the rhetoric of Democrats and Republicans. The proud
distinction of the LP was in spelling out the specific implications of
these principles for various concrete issues. The Statement of
Principles might suffice if our members were libertarian; it won't,
given that most of them are not. But, like the Constitution, it offers
no protection if the majority want something else.
I may continue to support individual candidates like Bruce Guthrie or
David Nolan, but the LP in its present form is not anything I want to be
associated with.
Howdy,
Would there be any interest in a local LPSF Platform? We have our
own unique mix of anarchist, minarchist, and reformist members
with many valued contributions over the years. Such a Platform
could cover specific local issues as well as national and global
issues. Having a face-to-face dialogue may be worthwhile.
Cheers,
Justin
A worthwhile question, Justin. A number of people are already pointing
out the possibility of state platforms. In our case, that doesn't help,
because Starr was the one who moved to delete all the remaining planks.
There's no reason I know of why we couldn't go ahead and develop a local
platform, though I confess my own enthusiasm is limited by wanting to
distance myself from the national and state parties.
Dear Justin and Everyone Else;
Why Not!
Let's face the facts - we lost face because of what happened in Portland - we can present our own local face - let's face the public - with our own version of a Libertarian platform suitable for San Franciscans and other diverse creatures of their ilk - we needn't put on a new face - or mask our faces - just let it all hang out -
The San Franciscan Libertarian Party - all for one and one for all - Is That Big Tent enough???
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
TRY THIS FOR THE PREAMBLE OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF SAN FRANCISCO PLATFORM:
San Francisco Libertarian Party
The San Francisco Libertarian Party asks all residents of San Francisco to be given equality of human rights and civil liberties. We ask that all San Franciscans have their individual mores, beliefs, tenets and conduct based on their personal moral, racial, sexual, religious, social, cultural and ethical status or any other aspect of being a San Franciscan acknowledged, recognized and respected.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party will treat each San Franciscan equally with the dignity and courtesy due any human being from any other human being to wit: To treat San Franciscan as you would have them treat you.
The San Francisco Libertarian each San Franciscan accept personal responsibility for their actions as it affects themselves and those around them in their daily life based on their personal moral, social, ethical, civil, cultural, religious, racial or sexual codes of conduct, beliefs, mores or tenets.
Furthermore, San Franciscans will be asked to not impose their beliefs, mores, tenets or codes of conduct on others unless those San Franciscans accept to do so willingly.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the following about San Francisco: The City and County of San Francisco has long prided itself on the diversity of its residents. This diversity brings a vibrancy to the City unequaled and unmatched throughout the USA. Furthermore, this diversity enables the impact of an un-ending stream of cultural encounters to encompass and enhance the San Francisco experience.
On any given day it is possible to hear a wealth of languages from Mandarin to French to Brazilian to Ethiopian to Samoan to Arabic and Hispanic. If one is a gourmand the language of food speaks loudest from kippers to burritos to piroshkis to sushi to giros. If one enjoys imbibing there is the language of sake - cognac - vodka – schnapps – and a worldly assortment of fine and delectable wines.
One can select from a choice of religions from Protestant to Buddhist to Jewish to Catholic to Moslem to Hindu to Satanic. And cultural celebrations can range from the 4th of July to Cinco de Mayo to Carnaval to the LGBT parade.
The local communities from the Bayview-Hunters Point to Downtown to Chinatown to Pacific Heights to the Ocean Beach of the Richmond and the Sunset present a wide choice of locales within which to live. Music to tickle the ear ranges from hip-hop rappers to tejana trumpeters to classical violinists to sexy sax jazz and blues to hard rock electronic guitars of the Fillmore.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the multi-cultural diversity of San Francisco and the wide range of inherent beliefs, tenets, conduct and mores each person residing in San Francisco developed as a part of their personal heritage and growth.
We therefore, adopt the following as the Platform of the Libertarian Party of San Francisco:
ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC .....
Dear All,
I am ambivalent about "voting" for or against taking time to work on
a S.F. Platform. It might be good to review what we as a group can
and cannot support, so that we are able to present a reasonably
united front when dealing with outsiders. On the other hand, I would
prefer to use our limited time and resources to work on the projects
already on the table but still unfinished (poster, police petition,
mailing list, means to contact interested people regularly, website
updating, street fairs, initiatives, support for our political
candidates Starchild and Phil Berg, semi-annual dinner, monthly
socials, new place for our monthly meetings). My personal feeling
about the Portland Purge is similar to Mark Hinckle's and his
statement at Convention that it does not matter one iota what the
lunatics at the National Conventions do, what does matter is what we,
the boots on the ground do by way of effective goal setting and
active participation in accomplishing those goals.
However, as always, whatever the majority in our group decides, I
will be happy to support.
Marcy
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Ron Getty <tradergroupe@...>
wrote:
Dear Justin and Everyone Else;
Why Not!
Let's face the facts - we lost face because of what happened in
Portland - we can present our own local face - let's face the public -
with our own version of a Libertarian platform suitable for San
Franciscans and other diverse creatures of their ilk - we needn't
put on a new face - or mask our faces - just let it all hang out -
The San Franciscan Libertarian Party - all for one and one for all -
Is That Big Tent enough???
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianTRY THIS FOR THE PREAMBLE OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF SAN FRANCISCO
PLATFORM:
San Francisco Libertarian Party
The San Francisco Libertarian Party asks all residents of San
Francisco to be given equality of human rights and civil liberties.
We ask that all San Franciscans have their individual mores, beliefs,
tenets and conduct based on their personal moral, racial, sexual,
religious, social, cultural and ethical status or any other aspect of
being a San Franciscan acknowledged, recognized and respected.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party will treat each San
Franciscan equally with the dignity and courtesy due any human being
from any other human being to wit: To treat San Franciscan as you
would have them treat you.
The San Francisco Libertarian each San Franciscan accept
personal responsibility for their actions as it affects themselves
and those around them in their daily life based on their personal
moral, social, ethical, civil, cultural, religious, racial or sexual
codes of conduct, beliefs, mores or tenets.
Furthermore, San Franciscans will be asked to not impose their
beliefs, mores, tenets or codes of conduct on others unless those San
Franciscans accept to do so willingly.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the following
about San Francisco: The City and County of San Francisco has long
prided itself on the diversity of its residents. This diversity
brings a vibrancy to the City unequaled and unmatched throughout the
USA. Furthermore, this diversity enables the impact of an un-ending
stream of cultural encounters to encompass and enhance the San
Francisco experience.
On any given day it is possible to hear a wealth of
languages from Mandarin to French to Brazilian to Ethiopian to Samoan
to Arabic and Hispanic. If one is a gourmand the language of food
speaks loudest from kippers to burritos to piroshkis to sushi to
giros. If one enjoys imbibing there is the language of sake -
cognac - vodka â" schnapps â" and a worldly assortment of fine and
delectable wines.
One can select from a choice of religions from Protestant to
Buddhist to Jewish to Catholic to Moslem to Hindu to Satanic. And
cultural celebrations can range from the 4th of July to Cinco de Mayo
to Carnaval to the LGBT parade.
The local communities from the Bayview-Hunters Point to
Downtown to Chinatown to Pacific Heights to the Ocean Beach of the
Richmond and the Sunset present a wide choice of locales within which
to live. Music to tickle the ear ranges from hip-hop rappers to
tejana trumpeters to classical violinists to sexy sax jazz and blues
to hard rock electronic guitars of the Fillmore.
The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the multi-
cultural diversity of San Francisco and the wide range of inherent
beliefs, tenets, conduct and mores each person residing in San
Francisco developed as a part of their personal heritage and growth.
We therefore, adopt the following as the Platform of the
Libertarian Party of San Francisco:
Dear Marcy;
Ambivalence is the opiate of the masses!!! However, it is far far better to be ambiguous and indefinite while retaining unsureness with undertones of hesitancy and indecisiveness. Vagueness while indistinct has an uncertainty that is hazy and lends itself to wooliness. But roughly speaking we can possibly ameliorate the differences and make the confusion more uncertain and indefinite.
Unh Hunh?
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Dear Ron,
Emphatically!! Thusly herewith also.
:]
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Ron Getty <tradergroupe@...>
wrote:
Dear Marcy;
Ambivalence is the opiate of the masses!!! However, it is far far
better to be ambiguous and indefinite while retaining unsureness with
undertones of hesitancy and indecisiveness. Vagueness while
indistinct has an uncertainty that is hazy and lends itself to
wooliness. But roughly speaking we can possibly ameliorate the
differences and make the confusion more uncertain and indefinite.
Unh Hunh?
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianFrom: Amarcy D. Berry <amarcyb@...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2006 2:37:01 PM
Subject: NEW TOPIC - LPSF PARTY PLATFORM - FORMERLY Re: [lpsf-
discuss] Convention Carnage
Dear All,
I am ambivalent about "voting" for or against taking time to work
on
a S.F. Platform. It might be good to review what we as a group can
and cannot support, so that we are able to present a reasonably
united front when dealing with outsiders. On the other hand, I
would
prefer to use our limited time and resources to work on the
projects
already on the table but still unfinished (poster, police petition,
mailing list, means to contact interested people regularly, website
updating, street fairs, initiatives, support for our political
candidates Starchild and Phil Berg, semi-annual dinner, monthly
socials, new place for our monthly meetings). My personal feeling
about the Portland Purge is similar to Mark Hinckle's and his
statement at Convention that it does not matter one iota what the
lunatics at the National Conventions do, what does matter is what
we,
the boots on the ground do by way of effective goal setting and
active participation in accomplishing those goals.However, as always, whatever the majority in our group decides, I
will be happy to support.Marcy
--- In lpsf-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, Ron Getty
<tradergroupe@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Justin and Everyone Else;
>
> Why Not!
>
> Let's face the facts - we lost face because of what happened in
Portland - we can present our own local face - let's face the
public -
with our own version of a Libertarian platform suitable for San
Franciscans and other diverse creatures of their ilk - we needn't
put on a new face - or mask our faces - just let it all hang out -
>
> The San Franciscan Libertarian Party - all for one and one for
all -
Is That Big Tent enough???
>
> Ron Getty
> SF Libertarian
>
> TRY THIS FOR THE PREAMBLE OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF SAN
FRANCISCO
PLATFORM:
>
>
> San Francisco Libertarian Party
>
> The San Francisco Libertarian Party asks all residents of San
Francisco to be given equality of human rights and civil liberties.
We ask that all San Franciscans have their individual mores,
beliefs,
tenets and conduct based on their personal moral, racial, sexual,
religious, social, cultural and ethical status or any other aspect
of
being a San Franciscan acknowledged, recognized and respected.
>
> The San Francisco Libertarian Party will treat each San
Franciscan equally with the dignity and courtesy due any human
being
from any other human being to wit: To treat San Franciscan as you
would have them treat you.
>
> The San Francisco Libertarian each San Franciscan accept
personal responsibility for their actions as it affects themselves
and those around them in their daily life based on their personal
moral, social, ethical, civil, cultural, religious, racial or
sexual
codes of conduct, beliefs, mores or tenets.
>
> Furthermore, San Franciscans will be asked to not impose their
beliefs, mores, tenets or codes of conduct on others unless those
San
Franciscans accept to do so willingly.
>
> The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the following
about San Francisco: The City and County of San Francisco has long
prided itself on the diversity of its residents. This diversity
brings a vibrancy to the City unequaled and unmatched throughout
the
USA. Furthermore, this diversity enables the impact of an un-ending
stream of cultural encounters to encompass and enhance the San
Francisco experience.
>
> On any given day it is possible to hear a wealth of
languages from Mandarin to French to Brazilian to Ethiopian to
Samoan
to Arabic and Hispanic. If one is a gourmand the language of food
speaks loudest from kippers to burritos to piroshkis to sushi to
giros. If one enjoys imbibing there is the language of sake -
cognac - vodka â" schnapps â" and a worldly assortment of fine
and
delectable wines.
>
> One can select from a choice of religions from Protestant to
Buddhist to Jewish to Catholic to Moslem to Hindu to Satanic. And
cultural celebrations can range from the 4th of July to Cinco de
Mayo
to Carnaval to the LGBT parade.
>
> The local communities from the Bayview-Hunters Point to
Downtown to Chinatown to Pacific Heights to the Ocean Beach of the
Richmond and the Sunset present a wide choice of locales within
which
to live. Music to tickle the ear ranges from hip-hop rappers to
tejana trumpeters to classical violinists to sexy sax jazz and
blues
to hard rock electronic guitars of the Fillmore.
>
> The San Francisco Libertarian Party recognizes the multi-
cultural diversity of San Francisco and the wide range of inherent
beliefs, tenets, conduct and mores each person residing in San
Francisco developed as a part of their personal heritage and
growth.
[ Attachment content not displayed ]
Morphing into "San Francisco Libertarians" is just fine, if the
intent is to be an orginization of like-minded individuals doing
whatever they decide to do (debate, activism, publishing LTE's and
other writings, for example). As long as the organization does not
take in any money, there would be no need to register with any
government agency. Or if money is desired, maybe an educational non-
profit status could be sought from the IRS. Paralell to that
organization, an LPSF would continue as a political party affiliated
with the LPCA, if there is enough interest.
Another alternative, of course, would be a brand new political party
with another name (can't use "Libertarian").
Marcy
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Morey Straus"
<morey.straus@...> wrote:
Maybe it's time to revisit Allen Rice's idea of morphing into
the "San
Francisco Libertarians" as an unaffiliated group.
>
> A worthwhile question, Justin. A number of people are already
pointing
> out the possibility of state platforms. In our case, that
doesn't help,
> because Starr was the one who moved to delete all the remaining
planks.
> There's no reason I know of why we couldn't go ahead and develop
a local
> platform, though I confess my own enthusiasm is limited by
wanting to
> distance myself from the national and state parties.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-
This highlights the next problem that politically minded
libertarians need to come to terms with, the triple-tiered structure
of the California Libertarian Party.
As far as the State of California is concerned, the LP exists as
long as a certain percentage of voters is registered to it (1% is
the required level, with the actual figure currently at about .5%,
and dropping), or at least one of its statewide candidates gets 2%
of the vote in each gubernatorial election (thank goodness for Gail
Lightfoot's unusual name and past occupation as a nurse!).
Fulfilling this requirement is pretty much out of the control of the
LP. We tend to ignore the first tier reglibs, as insufficiently
true believers, and rely upon the candidates to do a decent enough
job of campaigning to gather the needed votes from the general
population.
Our second tier is the Central Committee, to which anyone can
attain, _totally disconnected from the reglibs_, just by paying dues
and signing that odd pledge. Our REAL Central Committee, to which
one has to be elected, as the other parties do for theirs, is the
third tier Executive Committee, whether it be at the county or State
level. Note there is a complete disjoint between being a registered
libertarian and a "member" of the Libertarian Party.
It is currently possible for any reglib to go through the process
necessary to get on the primary ballot and gain the Party
nomination, without having any formal connection to the Party
(!?!?!). In fact, given the usual dirth of candidates, almost
anyone with the organized support and some funding could do so, even
in the face of opposition by the 2nd and 3rd tier LP.
The backing organization could certainly use the word "libertarian"
in its name. The Libertarian National Committee, it is true, is a
corporation and has ownership of the text strings "Libertarian
Party" and "Party of Principle", as well as the Statue of Liberty
logo. But only of that; the word "libertarian" is in general use,
going back hundreds of years and predating even David Nolan.
If such an oganization were to file for a number with the state Fair
Political Practices Commission and the Federal Elections Commission,
it would in fact have a stronger claim to be a political entity than
the LPC, which as far as I know currently has neither.
It is a matter of having the will.
Regards,
Allen Rice
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Amarcy D. Berry" <amarcyb@...>
wrote:
Morphing into "San Francisco Libertarians" is just fine, if the
intent is to be an orginization of like-minded individuals doing
whatever they decide to do (debate, activism, publishing LTE's and
other writings, for example). As long as the organization does
not
take in any money, there would be no need to register with any
government agency. Or if money is desired, maybe an educational
non-
profit status could be sought from the IRS. Paralell to that
organization, an LPSF would continue as a political party
affiliated
with the LPCA, if there is enough interest.
Another alternative, of course, would be a brand new political
party
Dear Allen;
Veeerrry Interesting!!! Anyone interested in re-starting the Libertarian Party from San Francsico using the original bed rock core principles the LNC has gutted?
Libertarian Party of America - logo of the American Grizzly Bear
Libertarian Party USA - logo of the American Bison
Independent Libertarian Party - logo of the American Wild Turkey ( Kentucky Whiskey Bourbon style)
Libertarian Freedom Party - logo of a USA border outline map
13 Colonies Libertarian Party - logo rattlesnake with motto - don't tread on me.
Such fun - let's go do it!
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian