RE: Global Warming??? - May dinner.

You may be interested to know that my May dinner party is scheduled to feature a presenter talking about global warming and in fact may well be in a debate format.

-DG

Dear David;
   
  Will the menu include snow peas as vegetables and snow cones for dessert?
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian
    
Dave GOGGIN <dg2222@...> wrote:
  You may be interested to know that my May dinner party is scheduled to
feature a presenter talking about global warming and in fact may well be in
a debate format.

-DG

  SPONSORED LINKS
        U s government grant Libertarian party U s government student loan California politics

Global warming is indeed coming. A summary article (1) in the Nov 25, 2005
issue of Science magazine includes
this graph which I copied to my website (2) :

http://harlandh.cnc.net/Libertarian/GreenHouseGases-Science.pdf

Read from right to left it shows that levels of greenhouse gases are
suddenly twice as high as ever before within the last 650,000 years!
Although the concentrations oscillate up and down about every 100,000 years,
they have suddenly spiked to unprecedented levels. Peaks in these gases were
always associated with high temperatures during that same period. This warns
of a serious problem coming relatively soon. Politics has made it very
difficult to figure out how soon, and how serious the problem will be, (and
the science is not easy to begin with, either).

Libertarians believe that governments must handle "externalities" which the
free market cannot take care of. Since nobody owns the atmosphere,
governments must protect it. Unfortunately, our government has trouble
finding valid solutions to the kind of pollution which its citizens can see,
(and choke on), daily. We need to de-politicize the global-warming issue,
and develop a sound, scientific, strategy involving the entire world, a
task which our current leadership cannot hope to accomplish.

A libertarian solution would be to find a way to move the externality back
into the marketplace. Taxes on emissions or emission permits should be
uniform all over the world. Then the market could find the most productive
use of the emissions by choosing the lowest cost products.

(1)
ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE:
Tiny Bubbles Tell All
Edward J. Brook

Science 25 November 2005:
Vol. 310. no. 5752, pp. 1285 - 1287
DOI: 10.1126/science.1121535

Our knowledge of long-term human effects on greenhouse gas levels in the
atmosphere comes from air trapped in ice cores taken from polar ice sheets.
These ice core samples allow researchers to place modern changes in the
context of natural variations over hundreds of thousands of years. In his
Perspective, Brook discusses results reported in the same issue by
Siegenthaler et al. and by Spahni et al. based on new samples obtained by
the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica (EPICA). The new long
records of carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide from EPICA extend the
window on greenhouse gas levels to 650,000 years. The results confirm that
the modern atmosphere is highly anomalous and reinforce the view that
greenhouse gases and climate are intimately related.
The author is in the Department of Geosciences, Oregon State University,
Corvallis, OR 97331, USA. E-mail: brooke@...

(2) Another Libertarian issue: is this "fair use"? "Science" is available in
public libraries but password-protected on line for AAAS members or
subscribers only. Patents and copyrights are supposed to promote the arts
and sciences but sometimes create monopolies for marketing with connection
to creativity or invention.

Harland Harrison
Vice Chair, Libertarian Party of San Mateo County, CA
harrison@...
http://Harrison2006.LPSM.org

Harland,

  It seems to me that global warming has become a political issue because many of its adherents are using it to promote anti-human, anti-free market, and anti-Western ideologies. The following steps taken by these individuals and groups could help depoliticize the global warming issue:

(1) Making it clear to the public that climate change is a natural phenomenon, and the world has been both warmer and cooler before than it is now or is likely to be in the foreseeable future, a circumstance which humans had nothing to do with
(2) Not assuming that global warming is necessarily a negative development which must be countered
(3) Acknowledging that most of the observed warming that occurred during the 20th century occurred prior to 1940, while most of the human activity alleged to contribute to global warming took place after 1940, and not assuming without proof that humans are responsible for the apparent global warming trend during the modern era
(4) Talking about the earth in scientific terms and leaving earth-religion out of the public policy debate

Yours in liberty,
        <<< starchild >>>

Global warming is indeed coming. A summary article (1) in the Nov 25, 2005 issue of Science magazine includes
this graph which I copied to my website (2) :

http://harlandh.cnc.net/Libertarian/GreenHouseGases-Science.pdf

Read from right to left it shows that levels of greenhouse gases are suddenly twice as high as ever before within the last 650,000 years! Although the concentrations oscillate up and down about every 100,000 years, they have suddenly spiked to unprecedented levels. Peaks in these gases were always associated with high temperatures during that same period. This warns of a serious problem coming relatively soon. Politics has made it very difficult to figure out how soon, and how serious the problem will be, (and the science is not easy to begin with, either).

Libertarians believe that governments must handle "externalities" which the free market cannot take care of. Since nobody owns the atmosphere, governments must protect it. Unfortunately, our government has trouble finding valid solutions to the kind of pollution which its citizens can see, (and choke on), daily. We need to de-politicize the global-warming issue, and develop a sound, scientific, strategy involving the entire world, a task which our current leadership cannot hope to accomplish.

A libertarian solution would be to find a way to move the externality back into the marketplace. Taxes on emissions or emission permits should be uniform all over the world. Then the market could find the most productive use of the emissions by choosing the lowest cost products.

(1)
ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE:
Tiny Bubbles Tell All
Edward J. Brook

Science 25 November 2005:
Vol. 310. no. 5752, pp. 1285 - 1287
DOI: 10.1126/science.1121535

Our knowledge of long-term human effects on greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere comes from air trapped in ice cores taken from polar ice sheets. These ice core samples allow researchers to place modern changes in the context of natural variations over hundreds of thousands of years. In his Perspective, Brook discusses results reported in the same issue by Siegenthaler et al. and by Spahni et al. based on new samples obtained by the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica (EPICA). The new long records of carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide from EPICA extend the window on greenhouse gas levels to 650,000 years. The results confirm that the modern atmosphere is highly anomalous and reinforce the view that greenhouse gases and climate are intimately related.
The author is in the Department of Geosciences, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331, USA. E-mail: > brooke@...

(2) Another Libertarian issue: is this "fair use"? "Science" is available in public libraries but password-protected on line for AAAS members or subscribers only. Patents and copyrights are supposed to promote the arts and sciences but sometimes create monopolies for marketing with connection to creativity or invention.

Harland Harrison
Vice Chair, Libertarian Party of San Mateo County, CA
harrison@...
http://Harrison2006.LPSM.org

Dear David;

Will the menu include snow peas as vegetables and snow cones for dessert?

Ron Getty

SF Libertarian

Dave GOGGIN <dg2222@...> wrote:

You may be interested to know that my May dinner party is scheduled to
feature a presenter talking about global warming and in fact may well be in
a debate format.

-DG

SPONSORED LINKS

<image.tiff>

<image.tiff>

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

+ Visit your group "lpsf-discuss" on the web.

+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
lpsf-discuss-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

+ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<image.tiff>

Dear Harland and Starchild;
   
  Here are some 140 articles from Lewrockwell.com which don't really support global warming some with some good scientific backing as much as point out it's more of what Starchild noted as power grab issue to increase government control over peoples lives and used politically as a Statist and/or environmentalists antipeople and anti-business issue.
   
  http://www.google.com/custom?cof=LW%3A500%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2Flewroc1a.gif%3BLH%3A93%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A65dad07a461e3427%3B&domains=lewrockwell.com&q=global+warming&sitesearch=lewrockwell.com
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
  Harland,

It seems to me that global warming has become a political issue
because many of its adherents are using it to promote anti-human,
anti-free market, and anti-Western ideologies. The following steps
taken by these individuals and groups could help depoliticize the
global warming issue:

(1) Making it clear to the public that climate change is a natural
phenomenon, and the world has been both warmer and cooler before than
it is now or is likely to be in the foreseeable future, a circumstance
which humans had nothing to do with
(2) Not assuming that global warming is necessarily a negative
development which must be countered
(3) Acknowledging that most of the observed warming that occurred
during the 20th century occurred prior to 1940, while most of the human
activity alleged to contribute to global warming took place after 1940,
and not assuming without proof that humans are responsible for the
apparent global warming trend during the modern era
(4) Talking about the earth in scientific terms and leaving
earth-religion out of the public policy debate

Yours in liberty,
<<< starchild >>>

I read one of the anti Global Warming articles at random:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller9.html

The same article also said that the HIV virus does not cause AIDS!

Both viewpoints on global warming have their sponsors. With enough money
you can buy arguments for any idea. Huge sums, and powerful positions hinge
on this issue.

Please look at the chart I posted. It shows that nothing like the current
concentrations of methane, NO2 and CO2 have occurred since human beings have
walked the planet! The natural climate variations show there too. However,
the current peak of CH4 is three times any value in the past!

http://harlandh.cnc.net/Libertarian/GreenHouseGases-Science.pdf

The current conditions are "highly anomalous"; they have never happened in
650,000 years.

Harland Harrison
Vice Chair, Libertarian Party of San Mateo County, CA
harrison@...
http://Harrison2006.LPSM.org

Dear Harland and Starchild;

Here are some 140 articles from Lewrockwell.com which don't really support
global warming some with some good scientific backing as much as point out
it's more of what Starchild noted as power grab issue to increase government
control over peoples lives and used politically as a Statist and/or
environmentalists antipeople and anti-business issue.

http://www.google.com/custom?cof=LW%3A500%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell
.com%2Flewroc1a.gif%3BLH%3A93%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A65dad07a461e3427%3B&do
mains=lewrockwell.com&q=global+warming&sitesearch=lewrockwell.com
  
Ron Getty

SF Libertarian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:

Harland,

It seems to me that global warming has become a political issue
because many of its adherents are using it to promote anti-human,
anti-free market, and anti-Western ideologies. The following steps
taken by these individuals and groups could help depoliticize the
global warming issue:

(1) Making it clear to the public that climate change is a natural
phenomenon, and the world has been both warmer and cooler before than
it is now or is likely to be in the foreseeable future, a circumstance
which humans had nothing to do with
(2) Not assuming that global warming is necessarily a negative
development which must be countered
(3) Acknowledging that most of the observed warming that occurred
during the 20th century occurred prior to 1940, while most of the human
activity alleged to contribute to global warming took place after 1940,
and not assuming without proof that humans are responsible for the
apparent global warming trend during the modern era
(4) Talking about the earth in scientific terms and leaving
earth-religion out of the public policy debate

Yours in liberty,
<<< starchild >>>

Dear Harland;
   
  So then it was the veggie eating dinosaurs bringing about their own destruction 650,000 years ago through the methane gases boiling up each time they farted or took a dump and over-heating planet Earth - eh???
   
    See what vegetarianism gets you - all them hot house gases… Except for T-Rex the meat eater… of course…
   
    But if this were true then Raquel Welch in her fur skin bikini movie 1Million BC
  would have been a big lie because it was based on pure fantasy - how sad…

  And not the giant meteor blasting Earth and spreading dust into the atmosphere blocking the Sun and creating the Ice Age or some such thing???
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian

Harland Harrison <harlandh5@...> wrote:
  
I read one of the anti Global Warming articles at random:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller9.html

The same article also said that the HIV virus does not cause AIDS!

Both viewpoints on global warming have their sponsors. With enough money you can buy arguments for any idea. Huge sums, and powerful positions hinge on this issue.

Please look at the chart I posted. It shows that nothing like the current concentrations of methane, NO2 and CO2 have occurred since human beings have walked the planet! The natural climate variations show there too. However, the current peak of CH4 is three times any value in the past!

    http://harlandh.cnc.net/Libertarian/GreenHouseGases-Science.pdf

The current conditions are "highly anomalous"; they have never happened in 650,000 years.

Harland Harrison
Vice Chair, Libertarian Party of San Mateo County, CA
harrison@...
http://Harrison2006.LPSM.org

Dear Harland and Starchild;

Here are some 140 articles from Lewrockwell.com which don't really support global warming some with some good scientific backing as much as point out it's more of what Starchild noted as power grab issue to increase government control over peoples lives and used politically as a Statist and/or environmentalists antipeople and anti-business issue.

http://www.google.com/custom?cof=LW%3A500%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2Flewroc1a.gif%3BLH%3A93%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A65dad07a461e3427%3B&domains=lewrockwell.com&q=global+warming&sitesearch=lewrockwell.com

Ron Getty

SF Libertarian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:

  Harland,

It seems to me that global warming has become a political issue
because many of its adherents are using it to promote anti-human,
anti-free market, and anti-Western ideologies. The following steps
taken by these individuals and groups could help depoliticize the
global warming issue:

(1) Making it clear to the public that climate change is a natural
phenomenon, and the world has been both warmer and cooler before than
it is now or is likely to be in the foreseeable future, a circumstance
which humans had nothing to do with
(2) Not assuming that global warming is necessarily a negative
development which must be countered
(3) Acknowledging that most of the observed warming that occurred
during the 20th century occurred prior to 1940, while most of the human
activity alleged to contribute to global warming took place after 1940,
and not assuming without proof that humans are responsible for the
apparent global warming trend during the modern era
(4) Talking about the earth in scientific terms and leaving
earth-religion out of the public policy debate

Yours in liberty,
<<< starchild >>>

Dear Ron;

The ice-core record only goes back 650,000 years (1). Dinosaurs last lived
65,000,000 years ago.

The meteor theory seems the most likely because of a thin layer of iridium
dust, possibly from the meteor, which scattered across the planet at the
time the reptiles disappeared.

I thought Raquel Welch looked really cute in "1 Million BC", too, but sadly,
that world where man met great lizard never existed.

Harland

Dear Harland;
   
  Only 65,000,000 years ago??? Gosh it only seemed like yesterday. How time flies.
   
  Well we can always look forward to maybe someday the theory behind Jurassic Park
  and we can go to a zoo to see a real live T-Rex and then maybe bump into Raquel Welch.
   
  Nothing like fur skin bikinis - Raquel Welch and dinosaurs to get your heart started in the morning.
   
  That meteor thing looks like it could be the one that hit somewhere around what's now the Gulf of Mexico and caused some frigid weather through dust sun blocking.
   
  The effect is best known currently from when Krakatoa blew up in 1883 and there were several years of colorful sunsets sunrises from the dust blown around the world..
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian

Harland Harrison <harlandh5@...> wrote:
  Dear Ron;

The ice-core record only goes back 650,000 years (1). Dinosaurs last lived 65,000,000 years ago.

The meteor theory seems the most likely because of a thin layer of iridium dust, possibly from the meteor, which scattered across the planet at the time the reptiles disappeared.

I thought Raquel Welch looked really cute in "1 Million BC", too, but sadly, that world where man met great lizard never existed.

Harland