Starchild:
Apart from the Federal power to insist on taxes being paid in federal
Reserve notes, why should anyone value them at all? This is
counterintuitive, but the linked article explains why this is so
better than any other I've read.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/milhouse062006.html
-Derek
That first paragraph has a lot of "ifs" in it, Phil. What
makes you
think that demanding taxes in gold would lead governments to stop
printing federal reserve notes? What more effective scheme to
increase revenue than to take in something valuable and pay out
something inherently worthless (i.e. collect taxes in gold and
give
out subsidies in FRNs?)
((( starchild )))
> Right now all the accounting rules are denominated in dollars.
> There is no way to do a significant amount of commerce in gold,
> egold, or paper gold. The Constitution requires that "the states
> shall take no thing in payment except gold and silver coin. If
all
> they were collecting in was gold, and there no legal tender
laws,
> they would have to spend the gold if they obeyed the
constitution's
> ban on emitting bills of credit, in other FRN.
>
> By permitting accounting in gold, and conducting a goverment
> business in gold, the transition would be speeded up.
>
> With the printing press taken away, there would be very limited
> ability to fund wars, or for that matter welfare.
>
> This scenario is unlikely to happen until the present fiat
system
> blows in infaltion and , which they have always done in the
past,
> without exception.
>
> One can hope and work to spread the knowledge of what wrong so
we
> don't end witha Bolshevic, or Nazi victor emerging from the chaos.
> From: Starchild
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Re George Phillies, honest money
is
> not the Gold Standard
>
> Phil,
>
> I don't think we want governments collecting taxes in gold as a
> first step. It bears too much similarity to Castro's model in
Cuba --
> collect all the hard currency as it comes into the country, and
use
> it to prop up a failed economic system in order to perpetuate a
> police state.
>
> Also perhaps I'm not understanding part of what you wrote -- what
> difference would it make to do "accounting in gold" if you still
paid
> in dollars?
>
> ((( starchild )))
>
>
> >
> > It would suffice if the goverment started to collect tarrifs and
> > fees, and for the time being taxes in the form of gold, or at
least
> > allow accounting in gold and eliminated taxes on the phantom
gains
> > gold makes versus an ever deptreciating dollar.
> >
> > The market would eventually drift to gold and gold backed
> > securities as long as fraud laws were enforced.
> > No other schemes are necessarry.
> >
> > However, the present system has been dug into a very large hole,
> > which requires massive infllation to stave off a financial
nuclear
> > winter.Being as that is the case, the adoption of gold could be
> > huried and the pain of another round of debt inflation could be
> > avoided if the Fed chose the purchase of gold as the medium to
> > inflate the economy with bales of fiat. To ameliorate the
> > infllationary effects, they could gradually raise the reserve
> > requirements of the banks until they were at one hundred
percent.
> > Viola, one hundred percent gold backed currency. The Fed could
then
> > be closed, the legal tender laws repealed, and economic
financial
> > reign.
> > From: Rob
> > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:26 AM
> > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Re George Phillies, honest money is
not
> > the Gold Standard
> >
> > Woohoo! We'd all be millionaires! 
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Ron Getty <tradergroupe@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Phil;
> > >
> > > What he should have said is he would dissolve the federal
reserve
> > system, stop fractional banking, devalue the US paper dollar by
at
> > least 1,000 to one then go back on the gold standard with an
> arbitrary
> > value of say $50.00 per oz gold maybe even a $100 value.
> > >
> > > Ron Getty
> > > SF Libertarian
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Philip Berg <philip@>
> > > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com; lpsf-
activists@yahoogroups.com
> > > Cc: Mike Gittelsohn <gittel@>; misha <Iolmisha@>; Luke
> Thomas
> > <editor@>; claycom@
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:09:10 PM
> > > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re George Phillies, honest money is
not
> the
> > Gold Standard
> > >
> > >
> > > Yesterday at the LPSF meeting in response to a question about
> > hard money, Libertarian Presidential Candidate George . Phillies
> > stated that gold caused the various panicks of the nineteenth
> century.
> > I said that he was wrong, but the conversation was ended there.
> > >
> > > I picked up the conversation later and discovered that Mr.
Philies
> > is in favor of central banking, like Ben bernanke, that
steady ,
> slow
> > inflation should be the policy of the central bank. In the same
> > conversation in which he praised the management of the european
> > Central Bank, he also noted the lower standard of living that
> > Europeans enjoy in certain material ways.
> > >
> > > WHY DOES THIS MATTER???
> > >
> > > 1. (And this has real traction with liberals). Hard money is
anti
> > War. Modern war requires, more than bullets and artillery,
money.
> > Paper money can be printed in nearly unlimited quantities to
fund
> the
> > war machine, while leaving taxes the same or lower. Very few
people
> > blame the resulting inflation on it's perpetrator.
> > >
> > > 2. Central banking and fractional reserve banking
persistently
> cause
> > economic booms and busts that waste vast amount of resources
and
> cause
> > great human misery. The assumption that these booms and busts
are
> > inherent in free markets is a cornerstone of socialist ideology.
> > >
> > > So long as the public continues to believe that inflationary
booms
> > and the resulting busts are built into free markets, they will
be
> > seeking other solutions.
> > >
> > > I don't see how a Libertarian candidate can effectively
espouse
> free
> > markets, while supporting central planning of the medium that
is
> half
> > of every economic transaction?
> > >
> > > Mr. Phillies also appears to confuse the use of gold , as
money
> with
> > the gold standard.The gold standard was a set of rules, set up
by
> the
> > Bank of England, in consultation with Sir Isaac Newton to
manage the
> > central bank monetary system. Central banking, fractional
reserve
> > banking, legal tender laws, and the forced acceptance of paper
notes
> > were part and parcel of this standard. The standard also
allowed the
> > central bank or other monetary authority to adjust the ratio
of
> silver
> > (and copper) to gold by fiat.
> > >
> > > Mr. Phillies was correct, there were numerous panicks in the
19th
> > century. With few exceptions that serve to prove the rule,
booms
> were
> > the result of some form of credit expansion that was either
> permitted
> > through the failure to punish the fraudulently issued paper
> > certificates that are not backed by the gold or silver that
they
> claim
> > to be backed by, or by forced changes in metal ratios. Wars,of
> course,
> > can cause economic hardship independently of monetary policy,
as can
> > bad economic policy pursued by important trading partners. The
> > exception that proves the rule that free market hard money is
> > stabilizing was the gold rush, that caused a mild inflation. in
the
> > era following 1849..
> > >
> > > The assertion that steady inflation is a good thing strikes
me as
> > odd. It seems to me that if prices are constantly falling at a
> steady
> > rate due to the continued progress of man making more and more
goods
> > available at a faster rate than money can be dragged out of
the
> stingy
> > earth, then everyone benefits. Who wants higher prices for what
they
> > consume. Who wants to put money in the bank to save for a
rainy
> day or
> > old age, and find it nearly worthless twenty years later. No Mr.
> > Phillies, and Mr. Friedman, inflation is not a good thing.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, in an economy where money is created when
people
> > borrow it, inflation is a necessity in order to allow the debt
to be
> > serviced. In this sense, Mr. Phillies is correct, constant
inflation
> > is a necessity of a debt base
> > > monetary system. The interest on the debt must be serviced. If
> > inflation stops, the debt pyramid collapses.. Inflate or Die
> should be
> > written in stone above the portico of the Fed. Those who have
> trouble
> > keeping up with the inflation, the old, the sick, and those
who
> pursue
> > traditional values such as saving money, and not participating
in
> > massive ponzi markets, these people will be crushed by
inflation
> and
> > the low interest rates created by easy money.
> > >
> > > Most of the old folks in my family and circle of friends have
been
> > squeezed to the point of near poverty by the years of low
> interest and
> > persistent inflation, witch, incidentally, is far worse than
> reported,
> > according to www.shadowstats.com
> > >
> > > The other big complaints that most people believe are
failures of
> > free markets, are in fact the result of fractional reserve
banking.
> > >
> > > The concentration of economic power in a few hands is a
result of
> > chronic inflation. As new money is created, those who can
borrow
> that
> > money can use this newly created money to buy real assets. As
> > inflation progresses, the resulting debt is easily paid off.
> > >
> > > Much of the concentration of political power is nurtured on
the
> > mothers milk of newly created money. take ruddy for instance. He
> > resigns from a modestly paid government career and opens a
Security
> > Consulting firm. So far so good. Given his access to bankers
with
> high
> > level connections, he is lent most of the money to buy an
investment
> > bank. Now he really has connections to the fresh green inked
paper.
> > Then, a few years later, he sells the Bank he bought for 8.5
million
> > for 85 million. wither this windfall was actually "earned" or
just a
> > payoff will forever remain a mystery.
> > >
> > > Feinstein is married to an investment banker. I should
emphasize
> > that is not a hint of illegality or scandal in the affairs of
Mr.
> > (Feinstein) Blum. Just the normal course of business in the
world of
> > paper money, central banking, fractional reserve banking, and
legal
> > tender laws.
> > >
> > > Pelosi is married to a former New York investment banker.
> > > clean as whistle, but nevertheless her power rests on his good
> > fortune.
> > > Bankers bought George Bush his baseball team with newly
printed
> > paper.
> > >
> > > George Bush's brother was a key officer in a failed Savings
and
> Loan
> > that cost the taxpayers 150,000,000.00 dollars in the mid
eighties.
> > > John Glenn,Clark Clifford, Lyndon Johnson, and on another
all
> based
> > their power on banking careers or participating in access to
newly
> > minted bank credit.
> > >
> > > Another symptom of our dysfunctional society that most
people
> blame
> > on free markets is concentration of power in the media. If a
major
> > broadcaster steps out of line, they can be brought to Jesus by
> either
> > threatening to short the stock to oblivion, or buy them out
with the
> > endless credit of the Federal Reserves printing presses. Chuck
> Colson,
> > Nixon's counsel, threatened to do both of those things to CBS
when
> > Walter Cronkite did his first major segment on Watergate. All
three
> > major networks have been bought out by Wall Street in recent
years.
> > >
> > > It is important that the people never catch on to the perps of
> > chronic inflation. One of the biggest indicators of the rate of
> > inflation is the price of gold. Throughout the last twenty
eight
> years
> > the price of gold has been manipulated by the dishoarding of
gold
> > from central bank vaults in the west and persistent naked
> shorting of
> > gold by key investment banks who work in the Feds interest.
The
> battle
> > is being lost. The powers that be do not want this understood,
thus
> > for the last 28 years they have reminded the public how much
the
> price
> > of gold is below it's minutes long peak in the nineteen
eighties.
> Now
> > that this record has been breached on a weekly basis, the new
line
> > coming from the financial media is that gold is way below it's
> > inflation adjusted peak, something that gold bugs have been
> saying for
> > years. Again , the controlled media is trying to prevent the
public
> > from waking up to the continued debasement of the dollar. I was
> > saddened to hear
> > > this mantra being parroted in our very own group.on Saturday.
The
> > media's grip reaches deep, even in libertarian circles.
> > >
> > > The continuous emission of new money is often misallocated by
the
> > banks, usually in gigantic and spectacular fashion. In the
> twenties it
> > was overinvestment in agriculture. The ubiquitous tractor
plowed up
> > the entire Midwest fence post too fencepost. the dust bowl
resulted,
> > coinciding with the great depression, as all the bad
investments
> made
> > by the first credit boom of the newly created Fed imploded.
> > >
> > > Now we come to the real concentration of power. When the
> inevitable
> > bust comes, the work out firms, still having access to Fed
credit
> > emitted in New York, buy up assets at pennies on the dollar.
> > >
> > > FDR was hailed as a savior of the common man. One of his
first
> acts
> > in office was to close all the banks for a holiday, not allowing
> > Americans access to their money. Then he outlawed the personal
> > possession of gold and forced the American people to take 20
dollars
> > in paper for each ounce.Once all the gold was safely in the
bankers
> > control, he, by fiat, devalued the dollars in the peoples
pockets
> from
> > 20 dollars and ounce to 35 dollars an ounce,instantly making
the
> banks
> > sixty percent richer and the American public sixty percent
poorer
> > There was mass hunger, but the big banks were saved. My cousin
lived
> > out his life with severe retardation because his mother was
> > malnourished in his first trimester during the debts of the
> > depression.
> > >
> > > The big workout firms that are now collecting assets as
agents for
> > the Feds role as lender of last resort have deep political
> > connections. Cyberus is the Republican favored work out firm,
> with Dan
> > quail in a very senior position.Cyberus was the two headed dog
that
> > guarded the gates of hell.You will recognize many other names
if you
> > goggle Cyberus.
> > >
> > >
> > > The instability resulting from the creation and destruction
of
> debt
> > based money is very difficult on the poor and middle class.
Long
> term
> > chronic inflation makes it particularly difficult to save for
old
> age.
> > Only the lucky crap shooters in the stock market might come out
> > reasonably well off after taxes, fees and inflation. The
American
> > public is quite aware of this insecurity. Unfortunately, the
Cato
> > institute , not being Austrians, are not. Thus CATO embarrassed
the
> > libertarian movement with their plan to privatize Social
Security
> > without first making the money secure. I recall a
Cato "expert"
> smugly
> > saying that stocks always go up and thus people who just put
> money in
> > the stock market can retire securely. Let them eat cake shares
and
> > icing dividends was his attitude.
> > >
> > > Of course no system is perfect. Even honest money can be
> influenced
> > by the use of force to skew the markets by our trading
partners. Mr.
> > Phillies thus sought to justify his dislike of precious metals
by
> the
> > historical example of the two Opium Wars Britain fought with
> China, in
> > order to force into circulation the silver the Chinese were
hording.
> > Lack of silver was causing declining prices in Britain, as
less
> silver
> > chased the same amount of goods. Debtors hate this and guess
who the