Thanks, Aram! I'm in San Francisco and don't have a car, besides already having a fairly full plate politically, so can't take the lead on organizing, but please keep me posted if you're involved in fighting this. It's definitely a worthwhile cause! I encourage whoever at Stanford is taking this on to work with the San Mateo county LP (and vice-versa). I'm copying their list on this message.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
This homeless situation is downright heartbreaking. Families with breadwinners who can't find jobs, mostly due to progressive "worker protection," sleeping in cars.
On the other hand, neighborhoods with folks who really do not want their neighborhood populated by the homeless, since they worked hard for their quality of life. As one comment expressed it in an article on the subject, "When someone sleeps in their car in front of your house, then uses your front lawn as a toilet and garbage can, you might feel differently." http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29734
I believe it was Eric who suggested interested activists speak with John Inks, Libertarian and Mayor of Mountain View, http://www.mountainview.gov/city_council/council_roster/mayor_inks.asp
I think it would be great to speak with someone whose job is to problem solve. My thinking is that problem solving is what is needed in most cases, not protests. But, whatever works for each activist is fine.
Marcy
Who are they not answering to, where they would proceed with such outrageous policy? What is the source of the bureau-political fashion that propels this?
________________________________
From: "philzberg@gmail.com" <philzberg@...>
To: "lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com" <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Proposed "Sleep in your car protest" - in front of homes of selected city councilmembers
Sent from my iPhone
Thanks, Aram! I'm in San Francisco and don't have a car, besides already having a fairly full plate politically, so can't take the lead on organizing, but please keep me posted if you're involved in fighting this. It's definitely a worthwhile cause! I encourage whoever at Stanford is taking this on to work with the San Mateo county LP (and vice-versa). I'm copying their list on this message.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Another interesting idea!!! Aram
Sent from my iPhone
What a shameful ordinance! Does anyone have the names and contact information of these council members? A "permanent encampment" outside the homes of these insensitive politicians might require more activist commitment than can practically be generated and sustained, but I like the general approach. Perhaps a more doable campaign could focus on disrupting *their* sleep, since they want to criminalize other people for sleeping, by students driving by their homes and honking their horns at random times in the middle of the night. I would suggest such a campaign be preceded by notes delivered to the homes of their neighbors, apologizing for any disturbances (since the neighbors' sleep would likely also be unavoidably disrupted) and suggesting they ask their neighboring council members to withdraw their support for using the law to criminalize sleep, dropped off at the homes of those neighbors along with gift certificates (maybe $20 each?) to a
popular local business, or something of similar value. This would require raising some money from supporters of the campaign (toward which I would gladly donate), but could go a long way toward minimizing negative backlash. Ideally the noise would be even more specifically targeted toward the offending council members, for instance by using noisemakers directly under their windows, but that would probably involve a higher risk of apprehension than drive-by honking, and so would be suitable only for the more daring activists. The notes to neighbors could also offer to call off the honking campaign against particular council members upon the activist group's receipt of checks totaling a specific large amount made out to the campaigns of people running to unseat that incumbent.
I hope we can bring back the values and morals of the wealthy a century ago. Check on the Settlement Movement before you give sympathy to the petty bourgeois that feed off the power of government to sustain their insulation from life's realities.
There could hardly be a better example of these ignorant leagues than the oil-rich white trash at the root of the resurgence of racism in the South. I hope we will not sponsor the same kind of malignant imperiousness here.
________________________________
From: lpsfactivists <amarcyb@...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 8:39 PM
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Proposed "Sleep in your car protest" - in front of homes of selected city councilmembers
This homeless situation is downright heartbreaking. Families with breadwinners who can't find jobs, mostly due to progressive "worker protection," sleeping in cars.
On the other hand, neighborhoods with folks who really do not want their neighborhood populated by the homeless, since they worked hard for their quality of life. As one comment expressed it in an article on the subject, "When someone sleeps in their car in front of your house, then uses your front lawn as a toilet and garbage can, you might feel differently." http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29734
I believe it was Eric who suggested interested activists speak with John Inks, Libertarian and Mayor of Mountain View, http://www.mountainview.gov/city_council/council_roster/mayor_inks.asp
I think it would be great to speak with someone whose job is to problem solve. My thinking is that problem solving is what is needed in most cases, not protests. But, whatever works for each activist is fine.
Marcy
Sent from my iPhone
> Thanks, Aram! I'm in San Francisco and don't have a car, besides already having a fairly full plate politically, so can't take the lead on organizing, but please keep me posted if you're involved in fighting this. It's definitely a worthwhile cause! I encourage whoever at Stanford is taking this on to work with the San Mateo county LP (and vice-versa). I'm copying their list on this message.
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
>
>
>> Another interesting idea!!! Aram
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> What a shameful ordinance! Does anyone have the names and contact information of these council members? A "permanent encampment" outside the homes of these insensitive politicians might require more activist commitment than can practically be generated and sustained, but I like the general approach. Perhaps a more doable campaign could focus on disrupting *their* sleep, since they want to criminalize other people for sleeping, by students driving by their homes and honking their horns at random times in the middle of the night. I would suggest such a campaign be preceded by notes delivered to the homes of their neighbors, apologizing for any disturbances (since the neighbors' sleep would likely also be unavoidably disrupted) and suggesting they ask their neighboring council members to withdraw their support for using the law to criminalize sleep, dropped off at the homes of those neighbors along with gift certificates (maybe $20 each?) to a
popular local business, or something of similar value. This would require raising some money from supporters of the campaign (toward which I would gladly donate), but could go a long way toward minimizing negative backlash. Ideally the noise would be even more specifically targeted toward the offending council members, for instance by using noisemakers directly under their windows, but that would probably involve a higher risk of apprehension than drive-by honking, and so would be suitable only for the more daring activists. The notes to neighbors could also offer to call off the honking campaign against particular council members upon the activist group's receipt of checks totaling a specific large amount made out to the campaigns of people running to unseat that incumbent.
Palo Alto? Oil rich? Settlement Movement? We are talking about some homeless folks pooping on some suit's lawn. This is a problem for two sets of people that need a solution for two sets of people!
Marcy
The quality of the solution frequently proceeds from the quality of the people's education and culture. Somebody pooped on a lawn? So what? Somebody's child died too.
Which do we worry about?
Obviously we worry abut the child who died, so no point posting about the homeless -- unless we can think of a solution for the homeless, since we cannot have a solution for the child who died.
BTW, my solutions are usually personal, since I do not depend on government to solve my problems; therefore, indeed, I do not sympathize personally with the owner of the lawn. It should be up to him/her to make sure, in whatever way necessary, that unpleasantness does not happen to his/her property. But, since the posts related to group action, I simply gave my opinion as to what I personally felt a political party's group action might be.
Marcy
Well that's a whole different matter. My post relates to those who seek the use of government power for objectives and solutions that a century ago, had been solved in the manner you suggest.
I think it might very well be in order for our political party to undertake these solutions as a group action.That might have a been a forgone conclusion after the prevention of government solutions that have become a much bigger and widespread problem than the original problem of poop on somebody's lawn or somebody sleeping in a car.
As an effective franchiser, maybe we could help to activate the locals to solve their problem in such a way that reflects our perspectives. This is along the lines of what Mikester and I are doing with Outright Libertarians, in the promotion the Bradley Manning Freedom Torch Parade. At the conclusion of the initiative, there will be a proliferation of operational local groups and bad things will have been prevented by the good things the local groups are doing.
________________________________
From: lpsfactivists <amarcyb@...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:15 PM
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Proposed "Sleep in your car protest" - in front of homes of selected city councilmembers
Obviously we worry abut the child who died, so no point posting about the homeless -- unless we can think of a solution for the homeless, since we cannot have a solution for the child who died.
BTW, my solutions are usually personal, since I do not depend on government to solve my problems; therefore, indeed, I do not sympathize personally with the owner of the lawn. It should be up to him/her to make sure, in whatever way necessary, that unpleasantness does not happen to his/her property. But, since the posts related to group action, I simply gave my opinion as to what I personally felt a political party's group action might be.
Marcy
The quality of the solution frequently proceeds from the quality of the people's education and culture. Somebody pooped on a lawn? So what? Somebody's child died too.
Which do we worry about?Â
>________________________________
> From: lpsfactivists <amarcyb@...>
>To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 10:08 PM
>Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Proposed "Sleep in your car protest" - in front of homes of selected city councilmembers
>
>
>
>Â
>Palo Alto? Oil rich? Settlement Movement? We are talking about some homeless folks pooping on some suit's lawn. This is a problem for two sets of people that need a solution for two sets of people!
>
>Marcy
>
>>
>> I hope we can bring back the values and morals of the wealthy a century ago. Check on the Settlement Movement before you give sympathy to the petty bourgeois that feed off the power of government to sustain their insulation from life's realities.
>>
>>
>> There could hardly be a better example of these ignorant leagues than the oil-rich white trash at the root of the resurgence of racism in the South. I hope we will not sponsor the same kind of malignant imperiousness here.
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: lpsfactivists <amarcyb@>
>> >To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>> >Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 8:39 PM
>> >Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Proposed "Sleep in your car protest" - in front of homes of selected city councilmembers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >ÂÂ
>> >This homeless situation is downright heartbreaking. Families with breadwinners who can't find jobs, mostly due to progressive "worker protection," sleeping in cars.
>> >
>> >On the other hand, neighborhoods with folks who really do not want their neighborhood populated by the homeless, since they worked hard for their quality of life. As one comment expressed it in an article on the subject, "When someone sleeps in their car in front of your house, then uses your front lawn as a toilet and garbage can, you might feel differently." http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29734
>> >
>> >I believe it was Eric who suggested interested activists speak with John Inks, Libertarian and Mayor of Mountain View, http://www.mountainview.gov/city_council/council_roster/mayor_inks.asp
>> >I think it would be great to speak with someone whose job is to problem solve. My thinking is that problem solving is what is needed in most cases, not protests. But, whatever works for each activist is fine.
>> >
>> >Marcy
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Thanks, Aram! I'm in San Francisco and don't have a car, besides already having a fairly full plate politically, so can't take the lead on organizing, but please keep me posted if you're involved in fighting this. It's definitely a worthwhile cause! I encourage whoever at Stanford is taking this on to work with the San Mateo county LP (and vice-versa). I'm copying their list on this message.
>> >> >
>> >> > Love & Liberty,
>> >> > ((( starchild )))
>> >> > At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Another interesting idea!!! Aram
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> What a shameful ordinance! Does anyone have the names and contact information of these council members? A "permanent encampment" outside the homes of these insensitive politicians might require more activist commitment than can practically be generated and sustained, but I like the general approach. Perhaps a more doable campaign could focus on disrupting *their* sleep, since they want to criminalize other people for sleeping, by students driving by their homes and honking their horns at random times in the middle of the night. I would suggest such a campaign be preceded by notes delivered to the homes of their neighbors, apologizing for any disturbances (since the neighbors' sleep would likely also be unavoidably disrupted) and suggesting they ask their neighboring council members to withdraw their support for using the law to criminalize sleep, dropped off at the homes of those neighbors along with gift certificates (maybe $20 each?)
to a