OT: State of Jefferson rally 9/20 (Yreka) / NorCal Liberty Summit 9/20-9/22 (Sacramento)

Discussion
1

Secessionist efforts in northern California are heating up again! The Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors has passed a resolution to leave California (see text and link to video in forwarded emails below) and there is a rally to promote the new state of Jefferson happening on Sept. 20 in Yreka. This is a worthy cause for anyone to support who wants to get more power back to the people.

  Also happening Sept. 20-22 is the NorCal Liberty Summit in Sacramento, being organized by Sacramento LP chair/LPC secretary Janine Kloss and others. Registration for this event is now open (see attachment or click on link below), and only costs $95 for the whole event including lunch on Friday, dinner Saturday, and lunch on Sunday, plus the full program with speakers including 2012 Libertarian Party vice presidential nominee and marijuana reform advocate judge Jim Gray and chaos theory author L.K. Samuels. More limited packages are also available.

https://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/eventReg?llr=bw8tlcoab&oeidk=a07e8244093954a5c40&oseq=a011whkpw1ben

Love & Liberty,
                                  ((( starchild )))

From: Nina Ortega <ortegan@yahoo.com>
Date: August 27, 2013 2:33:38 PM PDT
To: "bayareapatriots2@yahoogroups.com" <bayareapatriots2@yahoogroups.com>, "lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com" <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] State of Jefferson Rally on September 20 in Yreka, CA
Reply-To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

Come and join us. Tell all of your friends.

NorCal Liberty Summit
When
Friday September 20, 2013 at 6:00 PM PDT
-to-
Sunday September 22, 2013 at 5:00 PM PDT
Add to Calendar

Where
DoubleTree by Hilton Sacramento
2001 Point West Way
Sacramento, CA 95815

Driving Directions
Dear Janine,

We are so excited to announce the open registration period for the NorCal Liberty Summit!

The first ever Nor-Cal Liberty Summit will be a gathering of "believers in liberty" from all around Northern California. There will be a mixer on Friday, September 20, 2013 in the evening featuring Author, L. K. Samuels, a full day of entertaining and knowledgeable speakers on Saturday, September 21, 2013 w/ an evening mixer follow by a dinner with Judge Jim Gray, and an all day workshop on Sunday, September 22, 2013 focused on teaching the "Pathway to Self-Governance: Lessons on Exercising Your Civic Authority" facilitated by the President of the Center for Self-Governance, Mark Herr.

Please click on the link below to register or RSVP before September 19, 2013.
Get more information
Register Now!
I can't make it
If you have any questions about the event or how to register, please contact us at LPSacChair@... or at (916) 928-1231.

Thank you for your attention and response, and we look forward to seeing you at the event.

Sincerely,

Janine Kloss
Libertarian Party of Sacramento County
lpsacchair@gmail.com
(916) 928-1231

(Attachment image.jpeg is missing)

2

Apparently it does not bother anybody that in order to actually accomplish
this they would need either an act of the US Congress to make them a new
state or they would need to fight a new Civil War with a better result than
the last one that was fought 1861-1865.

Has anybody asked them where this new state would get money from? With a
huge land area but a small population they would not have enough money to
manage the resources of the state themselves.
When they say they want "local control", I suspect that they want local
control over the money they get from federal and state governments. This
does not seem to me to be a libertarian issue.

Sam Sloan

3

Sam is being logical. This "secession" effort is a side show to call attention to grievances. G-d forbid talk of losing any funding.

Marcy

4

Sam,

  You make a good point about the legal obstacles at the federal level.

  But here are some thoughts on why I think this is a positive development:

• From the video and other materials, as well as the history of this movement, the sentiment behind the secession attempt seems to be about wanting more freedom and independence from Sacramento, not about trying to bring home more bacon. Right now there are close to a million constituents per state senator in California (see http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Population_represented_by_state_legislators ) -- is it any wonder that people in small remote counties don't feel represented? The state is clearly too populous to provide residents with good representation in government with its present governance structure.

• The fewer representatives per person, the less out-of-touch government is. New Hampshire, probably the freest state in America, is at the other end of the representation spectrum from California, possibly the least-free, with only 3,291 residents per representative according to the link above. I don't think this is a coincidence.

• Given how bloated and bureaucratic existing state governments typically are, the opportunity to end the dominion of one of them in a particular geographic region and instead start developing a new state government in that region from scratch seems like a desirable change.

• Decentralism is a key libertarian principle. Ultimately we want individuals to be sovereign in most if not all aspects of their lives, something like the concept of "one government per person", with that person largely in charge of their own governance. Having a large number of smaller governments is clearly closer to this ideal than having a small number of larger governments.

• Any independence movement is pretty much a de facto revolt against the existing authorities, a visible public vote of "no confidence" in their leadership

Love & Liberty,
                                ((( starchild )))

5

Lost funding would be more that offset by eliminated tax obligations aka wealth confiscation.

6

Nina,
These so-called libertarians have been slurping the statist cool-aide for so long, that's all they know. This diatribe does not deserve the dignity of a response. "Side show", "Fight a civil war" Jeeze.

It shouldn't be necessary to explain how a "Hong Kong" or Estonia, on the west coast, would prosper.

Plus it's not secession, it's home-rule/independence.

John

7

John,

Perhaps the so-called libertarians to which you refer do not have the colorful penchant for florid ethereal thinking you are fortunate to posses. Jeesz, we so-called libertarians just look at plain boring facts. Just the facts, 'Mam. How very unexciting.

But, hey, if for some obscure reason which is not readily apparent to us so-called libertarians, the Feds and California will allow for "home rule," terrific!

Should the Feds and California suddenly see the light and grant such home rule to State of Jefferson, without Congressional approval or a Civil War, perhaps, as Nina indicates, residents would save enough on state tax to hire private providers to replace the state providers that now I am assuming now exist in Jefferson.

Marcy

8

Well, this would be a libertarian issue, contrary to Sam's conclusion, if the residents of Jefferson do have a solid plan to manage by themselves all the land and services, with no funds from the state coming in, and possibly no funds from the Feds either, since often Federal funds are tied to state activity. If that is the case, congratulations to the Jefferson residents.

For example Catherine Austin Fitts http://solari.com/about-us/
has been advocating living outside the grid for years. She is a very rational quiet speaker who puts forth a good plan to be as independent from the powers that be as possible. If thinking along those lines, in addition to the secession idea, is what the residents of Jefferson mean, again, great.

However, as Sam, I am also questioning what "local control" means. Local control of what? If local control of resources generated by the residents themselves, great! If local control of funds coming from the state, then this is not a libertarian issue.

Sorry, I am cursed with wanting to see facts in addition to whatever hype I see.

Marcy

9

Since these so-called libertarians are leading off with the notion "it" can't be done, then why are they wasting everyone's time with their hot air about their better world?

This notion is an insult to the people who are actually putting some rubber to the road. The only "facts" are that the so-called libertarians have done nothing more than the other parties, to accomplish any reversal of the police-state.

Are there some other facts here?

10

And so then what is it, the so-called libertarians have to offer, for the people who are actually seeking liberty? What course of action would these so-called libertarians recommend?

Meditation? Prayer circle? Debate society? Begging for mercy? What insight is there, into the conditions and circumstances of the actual conduct of liberty?

11

My, my I would suggest some meditation indeed!

Marcy