On Mar 25, 2024, at 12:37 AM, Starchild via LPSF Forum noreply@forum.lpsf.org wrote:
Starchild https://forum.lpsf.org/u/starchild
March 25
Richard,
That kind of hyperbole seems unnecessary. I’m not “holding the county affiliate hostage”. While I think doing so would be a mistake, if someone moves to pay the amount of the fine ($2790 is the number I’ve seen), and people vote to do so, I’ll respect the will of the body.
As to that question not quite on the table*, you say that the money is owed. To be more precise, someone at one California state government agency, or a group of someones at that agency, have communicated to us their view that the money is owed. My assessment is that we have not been provided any product or service for which we contracted, nor indeed have we done anything whatsoever, to the best of my knowledge, to utilize the legal authority (or limited authorization by them to be free from the threat of State aggression) granted by their recognition of the PAC established in the LPSF’s name.
Having received no service, utilized no powers, and done nothing, I don’t believe our paying the sum in question is warranted. In my estimation of the probabilities and risks in question, paying is not the course of action most likely to be in the interests of our party and cause. In terms of principle or ethics, paying the State in cases where there is no moral obligation to pay them seems, if not directly against libertarian principles, then at least leading to a less desirable outcome in libertarian terms. In practical terms, the question seems to revolve around the likelihood of the Secretary of State’s office going after us for this relatively small (to them) amount of money, in a case related only to our small, local committee not having filed paperwork formally stating that we did nothing. Their having taken this position, I doubt trying to contest the matter would get us anywhere; Max already requested a waiver and his request was not granted. Neither however do I expect them to take any action against us other than continuing to send us periodic communications about the matter.
In the meantime, the bureaucrats with claimed jurisdiction over the matter may change. Other matters under their governmental purview may claim their attention. There may eventually be some kind of amnesty, or more favorable terms offered, as has recently been the case with regard to the repayment of federal student loans (a case in which those granted relief actually received some kind of concrete aid of material value). The matter may simply languish on someone’s desk and not get referred for enforcement; it may not be correctly routed through the bureaucracy. Data may be lost. Communications may not be received; the individuals at our end may change (as they already have since the PAC was established). There are many variables, making the probabilities largely a matter of guesswork.
Perhaps we have different assessments of the likelihoods of adverse State action in different scenarios, or perhaps you simply have a higher tolerance for one type of risk (the risks of complying with State directives) while I have a higher tolerance for another type of risk (the risks of not complying with State directives. I think reasonable people can hold different opinions on what level of risk tolerance is optimal or best reflects reality in each case. Whether one opinion is more libertarian than another, or if it is, how much this should count for in determining our course of action, I’ll leave to you and others to consider.
Regarding the pending vote on disaffiliation, again there were three grounds mentioned by the state chair – besides the fine, he cited member notification and eligibility of officers. Neither of the other two issues have been rectified beyond possible dispute if the chair chooses to be nit-picky about it, as we’ve discussed. I don’t know how any members of the ExCom other than Adrian will feel about any of this. So I see no reason to assume that whether or not the LPSF is disaffiliated will hinge on whether or not we’ve voted to pay the State fine.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
*As I’ve told you on the Discord list from the convention Richard, I’m fine with you fully participating at our local meetings; if anyone wanted to take issue with your participation, that would be up to them; if you were to introduce or vote on a motion, I wouldn’t rule it out of order.
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In Reply To
RickySpeed https://forum.lpsf.org/u/rickyspeed
March 25
My fellow SF Libertarians, The Libertarian Party of San Francisco is on the agenda of this Thursday’s state executive committee meeting to be officially disaffiliated. We, the officers of the LPSF, were not given prior notice and the state chair (or any other state excom member) refuses to expla…
Previous Replies
RickySpeed https://forum.lpsf.org/u/rickyspeed
March 25
Correction: I suspect the reason is that the LPSF owes the government money
(not the LPCA).
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RickySpeed https://forum.lpsf.org/u/rickyspeed
March 25
My fellow SF Libertarians,
The Libertarian Party of San Francisco is on the agenda of this Thursday’s
state executive committee meeting to be officially disaffiliated. We, the
officers of the LPSF, were not given prior notice and the state chair (or
any other state excom member) refuses to explain why they want to
disaffiliate us.
I suspect the reason is that the LPCA owes the government money. I do not
know the amount and I do not know which agency, but it appears that the
LPSF has enough money to pay this debt. Unfortunately, the LPSF chair
refuses to support paying this debt because he doesn’t want to feed the
state. The LPCA chair, however, considers this to be a substantive issue,
as do I. Unfortunately, as a non-voting associate member, I am unable to
make a motion that the LPSF pay the debt and save the county party from
disaffiliation (if that is the reason).
With the LPSF chair’s refusal to support paying this debt, he is, in
essence, holding the county affiliate hostage to an ideal not grounded in
reality. While I sympathize with not wanting to feed the state, the fact
remains that money is owed and we are the party of fiscal responsibility.
The LPSF chair doesn’t see it this way and is unwilling to change his
position.
I have asked for an emergency meeting of the LPSF board on Tuesday in the
hopes that one of the other LPSF officers will make the aforementioned
motion and that it would have the votes to pass and, thus, save the county
party from disaffiliation (again, if that is the reason).
The purpose of this e-mail is to keep our followers informed of things as
they happen. We will let you know the outcome of the LPCA’s meeting and
where the affiliate stands. If the LPSF is disaffiliated, we will likely
bring the matter to the LPCA Judicial Committee. Stay tuned.
If this concerns you, I encourage you to reach out to the state party
leadership and ask why this is happening. Perhaps they will be more
forthright to the membership than the LPSF officers.
In Liberty,
Richard Fast
Volunteer Secretary
LPSF
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