This is a good one Scott....I'm sending to our local list.
Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
This is a good one Scott....I'm sending to our local list.
Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
Dear Everyone;
The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the truth.
It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of politics."
You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on just one ad!
Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party apparatus that can do likewise.
As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused around a focal point.
It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents itself and its message.
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Mike Denny <mike@...> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is a good one Scott�.I�m sending to our local list.
Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
Ron,
This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in -- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a mistaken one. More comments follow...
Dear Everyone;
The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the truth.
It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of politics."
A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new? Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more efficiently, we won't get them back.
You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on just one ad!
Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or a waste of time? Hardly.
Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party apparatus that can do likewise.
We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the race for president than the race for Congress or School Board. Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even when you have strong local candidates running. Many current Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential candidates.
As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused around a focal point.
It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents itself and its message.
More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their* grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianMike Denny <mike@...> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is a good one ScottÖ.Iím sending to our local list.Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@MichaelDenny.net
www.MichaelDenny.net
www.LPSF.org
From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
To: Scott Brown
Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
By Max Borders
Published
11/12/2004The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians don't even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it. Why? Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a statement of allegiance.
And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote Democrat because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for all the wrong reasons.
Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.
Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their "consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts, democracy is the only game in town.
Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's why if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front door, we have to prepare to change.
That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of voting do not make the case for it.
Playing the Game
Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so? Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going to have to get some people into office.
We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out. But how do we do that?
We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting for Schwarzenegger.
First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of Rights.
Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there. But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting people on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will we start to see some interest from the masses.
There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative?"
Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of where Libertarians are coming from.
Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the polls, or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The first order of business should be to tap this political market. But how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested? Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?
A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking points. Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to change -- maybe even the name.
Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the Libertarians to follow his concept.
Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it came from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it just smells funny to people.
Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're destructive.
One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy. Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from the Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then avoid the rest like the plague.
Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf, they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a good time to start experimenting.)
There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign, but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the red side you see the words low taxesÖ securityÖ fiscal responsibilityÖparental choice in educationÖOne the blue side you see civil libertiesÖ freedom to live my life my wayÖa woman's right to chooseÖThe two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New Libertarian PartyÖ Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such. TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the first step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
From Principles to Pragmatics
From Libertarian to Demopublican.
"The Party of Principle."
Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just made your bile duct secrete.
Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
Most people think their party is the party of principle.
Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.
Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid the rest like the plague."
For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no state at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist). What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers at LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or "support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS. Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."
Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived in many places.
Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
"Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people, including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe the government should be kept out of the question."
It's one of the worst examples of language in the platform. It's politician-speak. You can't tell what the party's position on abortion is from reading it. Does "keeping government out of the question" mean that government shouldn't stop people from blockading clinics? Does it mean that abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth, for any reason whatsoever? Who knows?
And most importantly, throw most of the Jeffersonian claptrap to the dogs. The language of the layman voter is a far cry from what we libertarians are used to spouting. And with a change in language, a change in tone.
When did Jefferson's ideas become claptrap?
Escaping the Echo Chamber
Adopt an outreach mission. There is something about our cutting logic, our cynicism, and our moral indignation that creates a ten-foot radial barrier around most of us. (And you thought it was the garlic you had for lunch.) Then when we do find each other, we cluster -- and are subsequently confused for the Dungeons and Dragons Club. To spread the gospel, it's going to take innovative ways of engaging with other groups -- because, like I said, there are hoards of these less reflective libertarians out there just waiting to be marshaled.
This criticism is somewhat valid, but it's hardly a novel observation -- from what I've seen, people in the movement tend to be well aware that many of us are bookish introverts, and that we need to do better outreach.
And razor-sharp argumentation alone is not going to cut it. Instead we should use our keen intellects to make them wonder -- to pull them into the discourse. Finding common premises of agreement is a good place to start, as this helps to establish trust. But most importantly, we should learn to leave our egos at home. And this may take some practice, because let's face it: most libertarians are used to being combative rather than compelling.
It may also take some practice for Libertarians to stop putting down other Libertarians.
We might even try talking like THEM. The Left, for example, has done a brilliant job both of co-opting our vocabulary and of making themselves seem innocuous -- caring even. Consider their favorite nomenclature: "freedom," "democracy," "toleration," "diversity," and "peace." If you're in a conversation with a Lefty, instead of saying: "how dare you people think you can expropriate -- by force -- my hard-earned property for your pet causes?" Try something like: "I look forward to the day when we are all free and prosperous enough to get back to the grassroots, so we can each support the causes that are most important to us as individuals." In any case, do away with any language that could come across as the libertarian equivalent of "because it's right here in the Bible!"
I agree with this, though again it's hardly a new idea.
Adopt a Communication Strategy
This leads me to the need for a communications strategy. Fred Smith -- one of the most beloved and bombastic members of the libertarian movement -- has co-authored a dynamite little book called A Field Guide for Effective Communication. Buy it. Set it by the bedside or in the bathroom. Memorize it. Internalize it. It has much of the basics you'll need for winningintellectual sympathy (to borrow a phrase from Michael Polanyi). Whether you're in the LP or have aspirations for it, a communications strategy is vital.
Part of what you'll get from the Field Guide is an overview of basic cultural values borrowed from the political scientist Aaron Wildavsky. The idea is that people respond to messages in different ways based on their fundamental cultural predilections to one of four basic categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, individualist, and fatalist. Thus, when reaching out to different audiences, our priority should be to try and determine their motivations, in order better to tailor our messages...
Messages for egalitarians (fairness):
"Because opportunity for all comes in equal freedom."Messages for hierarchists (order, security):
"Protecting citizenship, community, and personal responsibility."
"Yes!" I can hear the "hierarchist" responding. "We need to protect citizenship from all these illegal aliens, and protect our community from drugs and prostitution!"
Messages for individualists (freedom):
"Is there an entrepreneur in you?"
Messages for fatalists ("cant fight city hall"):
"Freedom needs leaders. Are you ready to answer the call?"Memetics, Mental Models and Mottos
The Blogosphere is doing a great job of disseminating some of the movement's best ideas. If nothing else, we libertarians have mobilized online. Another good way to spread our memes is to find thought leaders. There are groups out there doing just that and we can always use more.
But what is it that we want to spread? Mental models, maybe. The basic libertarian mental model is something like "no one, including the government, should be allowed to initiate the use of force -- except in self defense." Hmm. Society's immune system will swallow up that virus pretty easily. How can we repackage that meme for the people? How about: "True freedom brings out the best in all of us." If not that, then something else. When it starts working, we'll know it.
E PluribusUnum
In the course of writing this, I realized that I have moved back and forth between reference to the LP and reference to the Movement as a whole. Ultimately, I guess I'm hoping for change in both. Real change in the LP will make the party more palatable to both the libertarian cynics and the too-cool-for-school crowd (not to mention those outside the Movement).
Yes, but it depends what kind of change.
On the other hand, it's going to take some soul-searching by everyone in the broader movement -- to become more community-focused, less insular, and more open to compromise.
I'll go with two out of three. And tactical compromise here and there is fine, but no compromise on principles.
I'm aware of the difficulties here. Most libertarians cling to their principled worldview like NRA members cling to their assault rifles, i.e. -- "you'll have to pry them from my cold, dead fingers." But that's the very attitude that will keep us on the margins.
Until society moves in the direction of the margin. The author needs to read L. Neil Smith's "Lever Action" essay.
If we are not prepared -- superficially at least -- to attenuate our message and open our minds, we can expect to remain on the marginsÖ Grumbling in our esoteric journals. Applauding at our incestuous conferences. And blogging ourselves into the comfortable numbness of self-satisfaction. Instead, we must do one of the toughest things for rugged individualists to do. We must unite.
The most active libertarians are relatively united in a principled approach, which is not the approach favored by the author. If he wants the movement to be more united, he needs to get with the program.
Fight the power!
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Starchild;
Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more than 300,000 votes.
Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What would this country come to if people started thinking about who they should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be seen again if they don't vote your way.
That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn about it.
It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From You ."
Ron Getty
SF LIbertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Ron,
This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some
Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in
-- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
mistaken one. More comments follow...
Dear Everyone;
The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
truth.It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of
politics."
A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just
put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay
principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
efficiently, we won't get them back.
You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on
just one ad!Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of
millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in
every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative
candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much
less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or
a waste of time? Hardly.
Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a
candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
apparatus that can do likewise.
We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the
race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even
one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
candidates.
As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the
Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the
Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused
around a focal point.It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
itself and its message.
More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing
the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of
pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianMike Denny wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is a good one Scott�.I�m sending to our local list.Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
www.MichaelDenny.net
www.LPSF.org
From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
To: Scott Brown
Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
By Max Borders
Published
11/12/2004The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians don't
even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it. Why?
Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by
voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
statement of allegiance.
And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of
us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote Democrat
because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our
community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
all the wrong reasons.
Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of
their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.
Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to
the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at
the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an
election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
"consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
democracy is the only game in town.Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's why
if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
door, we have to prepare to change.
That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
voting do not make the case for it.
Playing the Game
Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the
mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going to
have to get some people into office.
We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and
acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out.
But how do we do that?
We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
for Schwarzenegger.
First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep
it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of
Rights.
Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting people
on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we
need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will
we start to see some interest from the masses.
There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have
you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
fiscally conservative?"
Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
where Libertarians are coming from.
Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the polls,
or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking points.
Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
change -- maybe even the name.
Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better
plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the
Libertarians to follow his concept.
Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around
terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it came
from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it just
smells funny to people.
Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to
the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
destructive.
One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from the
Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then avoid
the rest like the plague.
Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
good time to start experimenting.)
There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the
red side you see the words low taxes� security� fiscal
responsibility�parental choice in education�One the blue side you see
civil liberties� freedom to live my life my way�a woman's right to
choose�The two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
Libertarian Party� Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such.
TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the first
step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
From Principles to Pragmatics
From Libertarian to Demopublican.
"The Party of Principle."
Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just made
your bile duct secrete.
Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan
like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
Most people think their party is the party of principle.
Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you
throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think
strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being
realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.
Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what
he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to
take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid
the rest like the plague."
For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of
taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no state
at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist).
What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers at
LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and
the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or
"support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could
retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS.
Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's
coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."
Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of
touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at
least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived
in many places.
Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
"Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people,
including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we
believe the government should be kept out of the question."
It's one of the worst examples of language in the platform. It's
politician-speak. You can't tell what the party's position on abortion
is from reading it. Does "keeping government out of the question" mean
that government shouldn't stop people from blockading clinics? Does it
mean that abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth,
for any reason whatsoever? Who knows?
And most importantly, throw most of the Jeffersonian claptrap to the
dogs. The language of the layman voter is a far cry from what we
libertarians are used to spouting. And with a change in language, a
change in tone.
When did Jefferson's ideas become claptrap?
Escaping the Echo Chamber
Adopt an outreach mission. There is something about our cutting logic,
our cynicism, and our moral indignation that creates a ten-foot radial
barrier around most of us. (And you thought it was the garlic you had
for lunch.) Then when we do find each other, we cluster -- and are
subsequently confused for the Dungeons and Dragons Club. To spread the
gospel, it's going to take innovative ways of engaging with other
groups -- because, like I said, there are hoards of these less
reflective libertarians out there just waiting to be marshaled.
This criticism is somewhat valid, but it's hardly a novel observation
-- from what I've seen, people in the movement tend to be well aware
that many of us are bookish introverts, and that we need to do better
outreach.
And razor-sharp argumentation alone is not going to cut it. Instead we
should use our keen intellects to make them wonder -- to pull them
into the discourse. Finding common premises of agreement is a good
place to start, as this helps to establish trust. But most
importantly, we should learn to leave our egos at home. And this may
take some practice, because let's face it: most libertarians are used
to being combative rather than compelling.
It may also take some practice for Libertarians to stop putting down
other Libertarians.
We might even try talking like THEM. The Left, for example, has done
a brilliant job both of co-opting our vocabulary and of making
themselves seem innocuous -- caring even. Consider their favorite
nomenclature: "freedom," "democracy," "toleration," "diversity," and
"peace." If you're in a conversation with a Lefty, instead of saying:
"how dare you people think you can expropriate -- by force -- my
hard-earned property for your pet causes?" Try something like: "I look
forward to the day when we are all free and prosperous enough to get
back to the grassroots, so we can each support the causes that are
most important to us as individuals." In any case, do away with any
language that could come across as the libertarian equivalent of
"because it's right here in the Bible!"
I agree with this, though again it's hardly a new idea.
Adopt a Communication Strategy
This leads me to the need for a communications strategy. Fred Smith --
one of the most beloved and bombastic members of the libertarian
movement -- has co-authored a dynamite little book called A Field
Guide for Effective Communication. Buy it. Set it by the bedside or in
the bathroom. Memorize it. Internalize it. It has much of the basics
you'll need for winningintellectual sympathy (to borrow a phrase from
Michael Polanyi). Whether you're in the LP or have aspirations for it,
a communications strategy is vital.Part of what you'll get from the Field Guide is an overview of basic
cultural values borrowed from the political scientist Aaron Wildavsky.
The idea is that people respond to messages in different ways based on
their fundamental cultural predilections to one of four basic
categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, individualist, and fatalist.
Thus, when reaching out to different audiences, our priority should be
to try and determine their motivations, in order better to tailor our
messages...Messages for egalitarians (fairness):
"Because opportunity for all comes in equal freedom."Messages for hierarchists (order, security):
"Protecting citizenship, community, and personal responsibility."
"Yes!" I can hear the "hierarchist" responding. "We need to protect
citizenship from all these illegal aliens, and protect our community
from drugs and prostitution!"
Messages for individualists (freedom):
"Is there an entrepreneur in you?"
Messages for fatalists ("cant fight city hall"):
"Freedom needs leaders. Are you ready to answer the call?"Memetics, Mental Models and Mottos
The Blogosphere is doing a great job of disseminating some of the
movement's best ideas. If nothing else, we libertarians have mobilized
online. Another good way to spread our memes is to find thought
leaders. There are groups out there doing just that and we can always
use more.But what is it that we want to spread? Mental models, maybe. The basic
=== message truncated ===
I agree 100% with Starchild. I joined the Libertarian party because I understood and trusted the ideals and principles of the party. I felt that others who had discovered the party could be held in high regard as well.
I guess I just don't fully view politics as a game or a system we need to trick people into believing. What we need to do is stay smart and engaged in current issues while continuing to push for media coverage. We are already one of the largest 3rd parties in America. The intelligent will find us and once that happens the masses of unintelligent will follow. That will be the phase that we as libertarians really need to worry about. At that point there will be plenty of watered down, friendly and fun sound bites for everyone to pretend that they understand. It will be just like the Republican and Democratic parties of today
We should all enjoy the fact that we are surrounded by libertarian peers that have arrived at this view point because they are incredibly intelligent and aware of the world around them.
Best,
Jay
Dear Ron:
I could not have put it better. I concur with both your comments/rebuttal and the originators words. And this is not because I am disappointed with the results of the recent election. I, as well as the rest of us knew (or should have known,) that the result was a foregone conclusion. However, (in my opinion,) the over-haul is long overdue. I am not trying to decry the accomplishments of the founders and others that have worked hard to bring the party to fruition; having said that, many great ideas at some point can use sometime fine tuning to adapt to the present conditions instead of the past when it/they were incepted. Otherwise, we would still be flying Bi-planes and driving the earliest versions of automobiles, etcetera. This does not have to mean that it is a sell-out.
Leilani
Ronald Getty <tradergroupe@...> wrote:
Dear Starchild;
Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more than 300,000 votes.
Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What would this country come to if people started thinking about who they should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be seen again if they don't vote your way.
That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn about it.
It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From You ."
Ron Getty
SF LIbertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Ron,
This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some
Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in
-- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
mistaken one. More comments follow...
Dear Everyone;
The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
truth.It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of
politics."
A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just
put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay
principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
efficiently, we won't get them back.
You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on
just one ad!Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of
millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in
every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative
candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much
less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or
a waste of time? Hardly.
Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a
candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
apparatus that can do likewise.
We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the
race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even
one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
candidates.
As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the
Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the
Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused
around a focal point.It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
itself and its message.
More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing
the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of
pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianMike Denny wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is a good one Scott�.I�m sending to our local list.Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
www.MichaelDenny.net
www.LPSF.org
From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
To: Scott Brown
Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
By Max Borders
Published
11/12/2004The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians don't
even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it. Why?
Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by
voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
statement of allegiance.
And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of
us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote Democrat
because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our
community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
all the wrong reasons.
Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of
their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.
Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to
the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at
the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an
election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
"consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
democracy is the only game in town.Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's why
if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
door, we have to prepare to change.
That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
voting do not make the case for it.
Playing the Game
Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the
mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going to
have to get some people into office.
We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and
acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out.
But how do we do that?
We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
for Schwarzenegger.
First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep
it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of
Rights.
Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting people
on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we
need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will
we start to see some interest from the masses.
There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have
you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
fiscally conservative?"
Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
where Libertarians are coming from.
Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the polls,
or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking points.
Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
change -- maybe even the name.
Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better
plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the
Libertarians to follow his concept.
Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around
terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it came
from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it just
smells funny to people.
Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to
the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
destructive.
One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from the
Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then avoid
the rest like the plague.
Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
good time to start experimenting.)
There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the
red side you see the words low taxes� security� fiscal
responsibility�parental choice in education�One the blue side you see
civil liberties� freedom to live my life my way�a woman's right to
choose�The two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
Libertarian Party� Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such.
TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the first
step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
From Principles to Pragmatics
From Libertarian to Demopublican.
"The Party of Principle."
Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just made
your bile duct secrete.
Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan
like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
Most people think their party is the party of principle.
Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you
throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think
strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being
realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.
Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what
he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to
take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid
the rest like the plague."
For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of
taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no state
at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist).
What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers at
LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and
the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or
"support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could
retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS.
Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's
coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."
Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of
touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at
least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived
in many places.
Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
"Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people,
including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we
believe the government should be kept out of the question."
It's one of the worst examples of language in the platform. It's
politician-speak. You can't tell what the party's position on abortion
is from reading it. Does "keeping government out of the question" mean
that government shouldn't stop people from blockading clinics? Does it
mean that abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth,
for any reason whatsoever? Who knows?
And most importantly, throw most of the Jeffersonian claptrap to the
dogs. The language of the layman voter is a far cry from what we
libertarians are used to spouting. And with a change in language, a
change in tone.
When did Jefferson's ideas become claptrap?
Escaping the Echo Chamber
Adopt an outreach mission. There is something about our cutting logic,
our cynicism, and our moral indignation that creates a ten-foot radial
barrier around most of us. (And you thought it was the garlic you had
for lunch.) Then when we do find each other, we cluster -- and are
subsequently confused for the Dungeons and Dragons Club. To spread the
gospel, it's going to take innovative ways of engaging with other
groups -- because, like I said, there are hoards of these less
reflective libertarians out there just waiting to be marshaled.
This criticism is somewhat valid, but it's hardly a novel observation
-- from what I've seen, people in the movement tend to be well aware
that many of us are bookish introverts, and that we need to do better
outreach.
And razor-sharp argumentation alone is not going to cut it. Instead we
should use our keen intellects to make them wonder -- to pull them
into the discourse. Finding common premises of agreement is a good
place to start, as this helps to establish trust. But most
importantly, we should learn to leave our egos at home. And this may
take some practice, because let's face it: most libertarians are used
to being combative rather than compelling.
It may also take some practice for Libertarians to stop putting down
other Libertarians.
We might even try talking like THEM. The Left, for example, has done
a brilliant job both of co-opting our vocabulary and of making
themselves seem innocuous -- caring even. Consider their favorite
nomenclature: "freedom," "democracy," "toleration," "diversity," and
"peace." If you're in a conversation with a Lefty, instead of saying:
"how dare you people think you can expropriate -- by force -- my
hard-earned property for your pet causes?" Try something like: "I look
forward to the day when we are all free and prosperous enough to get
back to the grassroots, so we can each support the causes that are
most important to us as individuals." In any case, do away with any
language that could come across as the libertarian equivalent of
"because it's right here in the Bible!"
I agree with this, though again it's hardly a new idea.
Adopt a Communication Strategy
This leads me to the need for a communications strategy. Fred Smith --
one of the most beloved and bombastic members of the libertarian
movement -- has co-authored a dynamite little book called A Field
Guide for Effective Communication. Buy it. Set it by the bedside or in
the bathroom. Memorize it. Internalize it. It has much of the basics
you'll need for winningintellectual sympathy (to borrow a phrase from
Michael Polanyi). Whether you're in the LP or have aspirations for it,
a communications strategy is vital.Part of what you'll get from the Field Guide is an overview of basic
cultural values borrowed from the political scientist Aaron Wildavsky.
The idea is that people respond to messages in different ways based on
their fundamental cultural predilections to one of four basic
categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, individualist, and fatalist.
Thus, when reaching out to different audiences, our priority should be
to try and determine their motivations, in order better to tailor our
messages...Messages for egalitarians (fairness):
"Because opportunity for all comes in equal freedom."Messages for hierarchists (order, security):
"Protecting citizenship, community, and personal responsibility."
"Yes!" I can hear the "hierarchist" responding. "We need to protect
citizenship from all these illegal aliens, and protect our community
from drugs and prostitution!"
Messages for individualists (freedom):
"Is there an entrepreneur in you?"
Messages for fatalists ("cant fight city hall"):
"Freedom needs leaders. Are you ready to answer the call?"Memetics, Mental Models and Mottos
The Blogosphere is doing a great job of disseminating some of the
movement's best ideas. If nothing else, we libertarians have mobilized
online. Another good way to spread our memes is to find thought
leaders. There are groups out there doing just that and we can always
use more.But what is it that we want to spread? Mental models, maybe. The basic
=== message truncated ===
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
Dear Leilani;
The response I wrote was from still being torqued over the results of the so called presidential elections. For the case of Michael Badnarik vs. Ralph Nader it gets me even more bent out of shape.
Take Nader: no money - no party - no campaign - spending all his time trying to get on ballots - can't articulate his way out of a wet soggy fallin apart paper bag and he gets 300,000 votes!!!
Michael Badnarik: had money - a real party - a real campaign - on the ballot in 49 states I think he didn't get on the new Hampshire ballot - can articulate in a responsive understandable way what being a Libertarian means and gets 300,000 votes!!
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Harry Browne had a column in lew rockwell on the LP and the vote and he expressed the feelings I have about the vote and what could be done. Try reading the article. You may not agree with everything he says but there are some great points he makes:
http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/LibertarianVoteTotal.htm
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Leilani Wright <plantagenetregina1157@...> wrote:
Dear Ron:
I could not have put it better. I concur with both your comments/rebuttal and the originators words. And this is not because I am disappointed with the results of the recent election. I, as well as the rest of us knew (or should have known,) that the result was a foregone conclusion. However, (in my opinion,) the over-haul is long overdue. I am not trying to decry the accomplishments of the founders and others that have worked hard to bring the party to fruition; having said that, many great ideas at some point can use sometime fine tuning to adapt to the present conditions instead of the past when it/they were incepted. Otherwise, we would still be flying Bi-planes and driving the earliest versions of automobiles, etcetera. This does not have to mean that it is a sell-out.
Leilani
Ronald Getty <tradergroupe@...> wrote:
Dear Starchild;
Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more than 300,000 votes.
Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What would this country come to if people started thinking about who they should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be seen again if they don't vote your way.
That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn about it.
It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From You ."
Ron Getty
SF LIbertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Ron,
This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some
Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in
-- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
mistaken one. More comments follow...
Dear Everyone;
The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
truth.It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of
politics."
A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just
put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay
principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
efficiently, we won't get them back.
You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on
just one ad!Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of
millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in
every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative
candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much
less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or
a waste of time? Hardly.
Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a
candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
apparatus that can do likewise.
We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the
race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even
one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
candidates.
As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the
Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the
Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused
around a focal point.It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
itself and its message.
More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing
the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of
pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
Ron Getty
SF LibertarianMike Denny wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is a good one Scott�.I�m sending to our local list.Best regards,
Michael Denny
Libertarian Party of San Francisco
(415) 986-7677 x123
mike@...
www.MichaelDenny.net
www.LPSF.org
From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
To: Scott Brown
Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
By Max Borders
Published
11/12/2004The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians don't
even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it. Why?
Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by
voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
statement of allegiance.
And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of
us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote Democrat
because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our
community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
all the wrong reasons.
Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of
their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.
Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to
the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at
the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an
election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
"consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
democracy is the only game in town.Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's why
if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
door, we have to prepare to change.
That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
voting do not make the case for it.
Playing the Game
Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the
mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going to
have to get some people into office.
We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and
acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out.
But how do we do that?
We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
for Schwarzenegger.
First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep
it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of
Rights.
Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting people
on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we
need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will
we start to see some interest from the masses.
There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have
you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
fiscally conservative?"
Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
where Libertarians are coming from.
Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the polls,
or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking points.
Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
change -- maybe even the name.
Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better
plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the
Libertarians to follow his concept.
Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around
terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it came
from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it just
smells funny to people.
Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to
the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
destructive.
One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from the
Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then avoid
the rest like the plague.
Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
good time to start experimenting.)
There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the
red side you see the words low taxes� security� fiscal
responsibility�parental choice in education�One the blue side you see
civil liberties� freedom to live my life my way�a woman's right to
choose�The two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
Libertarian Party� Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such.
TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the first
step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
From Principles to Pragmatics
From Libertarian to Demopublican.
"The Party of Principle."
Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just made
your bile duct secrete.
Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan
like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
Most people think their party is the party of principle.
Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you
throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think
strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being
realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.
Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what
he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to
take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid
the rest like the plague."
For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of
taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no state
at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist).
What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers at
LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and
the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or
"support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could
retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS.
Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's
coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."
Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of
touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at
least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived
in many places.
Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
"Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people,
including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we
believe the government should be kept out of the question."
It's one of the worst examples of language in the platform. It's
politician-speak. You can't tell what the party's position on abortion
is from reading it. Does "keeping government out of the question" mean
that government shouldn't stop people from blockading clinics? Does it
mean that abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth,
for any reason whatsoever? Who knows?
And most importantly, throw most of the Jeffersonian claptrap to the
dogs. The language of the layman voter is a far cry from what we
libertarians are used to spouting. And with a change in language, a
change in tone.
When did Jefferson's ideas become claptrap?
Escaping the Echo Chamber
Adopt an outreach mission. There is something about our cutting logic,
our cynicism, and our moral indignation that creates a ten-foot radial
barrier around most of us. (And you thought it was the garlic you had
for lunch.) Then when we do find each other, we cluster -- and are
subsequently confused for the Dungeons and Dragons Club. To spread the
gospel, it's going to take innovative ways of engaging with other
groups -- because, like I said, there are hoards of these less
reflective libertarians out there just waiting to be marshaled.
This criticism is somewhat valid, but it's hardly a novel observation
-- from what I've seen, people in the movement tend to be well aware
that many of us are bookish introverts, and that we need to do better
outreach.
And razor-sharp argumentation alone is not going to cut it. Instead we
should use our keen intellects to make them wonder -- to pull them
into the discourse. Finding common premises of agreement is a good
place to start, as this helps to establish trust. But most
importantly, we should learn to leave our egos at home. And this may
take some practice, because let's face it: most libertarians are used
to being combative rather than compelling.
It may also take some practice for Libertarians to stop putting down
other Libertarians.
We might even try talking like THEM. The Left, for example, has done
a brilliant job both of co-opting our vocabulary and of making
themselves seem innocuous -- caring even. Consider their favorite
nomenclature: "freedom," "democracy," "toleration," "diversity," and
"peace." If you're in a conversation with a Lefty, instead of saying:
"how dare you people think you can expropriate -- by force -- my
hard-earned property for your pet causes?" Try something like: "I look
forward to the day when we are all free and prosperous enough to get
back to the grassroots, so we can each support the causes that are
most important to us as individuals." In any case, do away with any
language that could come across as the libertarian equivalent of
"because it's right here in the Bible!"
I agree with this, though again it's hardly a new idea.
Adopt a Communication Strategy
This leads me to the need for a communications strategy. Fred Smith --
one of the most beloved and bombastic members of the libertarian
movement -- has co-authored a dynamite little book called A Field
Guide for Effective Communication. Buy it. Set it by the bedside or in
the bathroom. Memorize it. Internalize it. It has much of the basics
you'll need for winningintellectual sympathy (to borrow a phrase from
Michael Polanyi). Whether you're in the LP or have aspirations for it,
a communications strategy is vital.Part of what you'll get from the Field Guide is an overview of basic
cultural values borrowed from the political scientist Aaron Wildavsky.
The idea is that people respond to messages in different ways based on
their fundamental cultural predilections to one of four basic
categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, individualist, and fatalist.
Thus, when reaching out to different audiences, our priority should be
to try and determine their motivations, in order better to tailor our
messages...Messages for egalitarians (fairness):
"Because opportunity for all comes in equal freedom."Messages for hierarchists (order, security):
"Protecting citizenship, community, and personal responsibility."
"Yes!" I can hear the "hierarchist" responding. "We need to protect
citizenship from all these illegal aliens, and protect our community
from drugs and prostitution!"
Messages for individualists (freedom):
"Is there an entrepreneur in you?"
Messages for fatalists ("cant fight city hall"):
"Freedom needs leaders. Are you ready to answer the call?"Memetics, Mental Models and Mottos
The Blogosphere is doing a great job of disseminating some of the
movement's best ideas. If nothing else, we libertarians have mobilized
online. Another good way to spread our memes is to find thought
leaders. There are groups out there doing just that and we can always
use more.But what is it that we want to spread? Mental models, maybe. The basic
=== message truncated ===
Leilani,
I don't think Ron is advocating "selling out" [It's very hard to credibly criticize someone crying "revolution!" as a sell-out 8) ] but I think that's a fair description of the prescription offered by the original article that was posted. It was that article to which I was primarily responding. If you have ideas on how we can overhaul the LP to make ourselves more effective without abandoning the pursuit of what we're fighting for, I'm all ears.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Ron:
I could not have put it better. I concur with both your comments/rebuttal and the originators words. And this is not because I am disappointed with the results of the recent election. I, as well as the rest of us knew (or should have known,) that the result was a foregone conclusion. However, (in my opinion,) the over-haul is long overdue. I am not trying to decry the accomplishments of the founders and others that have worked hard to bring the party to fruition; having said that, many great ideas at some point can use sometime fine tuning to adapt to the present conditions instead of the past when it/they were incepted. Otherwise, we would still be flying Bi-planes and driving the earliest versions of automobiles, etcetera. This does not have to mean that it is a sell-out.
Leilani
Ronald Getty <tradergroupe@...> wrote:
Dear Starchild;
Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more than 300,000 votes.
Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What would this country come to if people started thinking about who they should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be seen again if they don't vote your way.
That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn about it.
It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From You ."
Ron Getty
SF LIbertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:Ron,
This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some
Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in
-- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
mistaken one. More comments follow...> Dear Everyone;
>
> The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
> truth.
>
> It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
> spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
> Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk of
> politics."A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just
put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay
principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
efficiently, we won't get them back.> You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
> line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
> will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
> million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on
> just one ad!
>
> Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of
> millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in
> every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative
candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much
less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or
a waste of time? Hardly.> Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have a
> candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
> apparatus that can do likewise.We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the
race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even
one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
candidates.> As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
> Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the
> Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the
> Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused
> around a focal point.
>
> It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
> itself and its message.More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing
the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of
pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
> Ron Getty
> SF Libertarian
>
>
> Mike Denny wrote:
>
> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> This is a good one Scott÷.IÌm sending to our local list.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Michael Denny
>
> Libertarian Party of San Francisco
>
> (415) 986-7677 x123
>
> mike@...
>
> www.MichaelDenny.net
>
> www.LPSF.org
>
> From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
> To: Scott Brown
> Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)
>
>
>
> Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
> By Max Borders
> Published
> 11/12/2004
>
> The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians don't
> even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it. Why?
> Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by
voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
statement of allegiance.> And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of
> us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote Democrat
> because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
> church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
> polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our
> community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
> all the wrong reasons.Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of
their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.> Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
> voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
> call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to
> the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at
> the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an
> election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
> instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
> "consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
> democracy is the only game in town.
>
> Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's why
> if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
> door, we have to prepare to change.That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
voting do not make the case for it.> Playing the Game
>
> Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the
> mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
Those obvious questions are left unanswered.> If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going to
> have to get some people into office.We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.> Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and
> acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
> But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out.
> But how do we do that?We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
for Schwarzenegger.> First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
> libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep
> it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of
> Rights.Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.> There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting people
> on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
> employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we
> need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will
> we start to see some interest from the masses.There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.> They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have
> you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
> fiscally conservative?"Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
where Libertarians are coming from.> Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the polls,
> or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
> system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
> first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
> how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
> Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?
>
> A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
>
> From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking points.
> Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
> change -- maybe even the name.Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better
plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the
Libertarians to follow his concept.> Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around
> terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it came
> from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it just
> smells funny to people.Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to
the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
destructive.> One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
> Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
> best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from the
> Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then avoid
> the rest like the plague.Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.> Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
> ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
> good time to start experimenting.)There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.> How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the
> red side you see the words low taxes÷ security÷ fiscal
> responsibility÷parental choice in education÷One the blue side you see
> civil liberties÷ freedom to live my life my way÷a woman's right to
> choose÷The two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
> Libertarian Party÷ Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such.
> TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the first
> step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.> From Principles to Pragmatics
From Libertarian to Demopublican.
> "The Party of Principle."
>
> Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just made
> your bile duct secrete.Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan
like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).> Most people think their party is the party of principle.
Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
> The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you
> throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think
> strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being
> realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what
he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to
take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid
the rest like the plague."> For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of
> taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no state
> at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist).
> What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers at
> LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and
> the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or
> "support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could
> retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS.
> Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's
> coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of
touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at
least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived
in many places.>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
>
> "Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people,
> including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we
> believe the government should be kept out of the question."It's one of the worst examples of language in the platform. It's
politician-speak. You can't tell what the party's position on abortion
is from reading it. Does "keeping government out of the question" mean
that government shouldn't stop people from blockading clinics? Does it
mean that abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth,
for any reason whatsoever? Who knows?> And most importantly, throw most of the Jeffersonian claptrap to the
> dogs. The language of the layman voter is a far cry from what we
> libertarians are used to spouting. And with a change in language, a
> change in tone.When did Jefferson's ideas become claptrap?
> Escaping the Echo Chamber
>
> Adopt an outreach mission. There is something about our cutting logic,
> our cynicism, and our moral indignation that creates a ten-foot radial
> barrier around most of us. (And you thought it was the garlic you had
> for lunch.) Then when we do find each other, we cluster -- and are
> subsequently confused for the Dungeons and Dragons Club. To spread the
> gospel, it's going to take innovative ways of engaging with other
> groups -- because, like I said, there are hoards of these less
> reflective libertarians out there just waiting to be marshaled.This criticism is somewhat valid, but it's hardly a novel observation
-- from what I've seen, people in the movement tend to be well aware
that many of us are bookish introverts, and that we need to do better
outreach.> And razor-sharp argumentation alone is not going to cut it. Instead we
> should use our keen intellects to make them wonder -- to pull them
> into the discourse. Finding common premises of agreement is a good
> place to start, as this helps to establish trust. But most
> importantly, we should learn to leave our egos at home. And this may
> take some practice, because let's face it: most libertarians are used
> to being combative rather than compelling.It may also take some practice for Libertarians to stop putting down
other Libertarians.> We might even try talking like THEM. The Left, for example, has done
> a brilliant job both of co-opting our vocabulary and of making
> themselves seem innocuous -- caring even. Consider their favorite
> nomenclature: "freedom," "democracy," "toleration," "diversity," and
> "peace." If you're in a conversation with a Lefty, instead of saying:
> "how dare you people think you can expropriate -- by force -- my
> hard-earned property for your pet causes?" Try something like: "I look
> forward to the day when we are all free and prosperous enough to get
> back to the grassroots, so we can each support the causes that are
> most important to us as individuals." In any case, do away with any
> language that could come across as the libertarian equivalent of
> "because it's right here in the Bible!"I agree with this, though again it's hardly a new idea.
> Adopt a Communication Strategy
>
> This leads me to the need for a communications strategy. Fred Smith --
> one of the most beloved and bombastic members of the libertarian
> movement -- has co-authored a dynamite little book called A Field
> Guide for Effective Communication. Buy it. Set it by the bedside or in
> the bathroom. Memorize it. Internalize it. It has much of the basics
> you'll need for winningintellectual sympathy (to borrow a phrase from
> Michael Polanyi). Whether you're in the LP or have aspirations for it,
> a communications strategy is vital.
>
> Part of what you'll get from the Field Guide is an overview of basic
> cultural values borrowed from the political scientist Aaron Wildavsky.
> The idea is that people respond to messages in different ways based on
> their fundamental cultural predilections to one of four basic
> categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, individualist, and fatalist.
> Thus, when reaching out to different audiences, our priority should be
> to try and determine their motivations, in order better to tailor our
> messages...
>
> Messages for egalitarians (fairness):
> "Because opportunity for all comes in equal freedom."
>
> Messages for hierarchists (order, security):
> "Protecting citizenship, community, and personal responsibility.""Yes!" I can hear the "hierarchist" responding. "We need to protect
citizenship from all these illegal aliens, and protect our community
from drugs and prostitution!"> Messages for individualists (freedom):
> "Is there an entrepreneur in you?">
>
> Messages for fatalists ("cant fight city hall"):
> "Freedom needs leaders. Are you ready to answer the call?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Memetics, Mental Models and Mottos
>
> The Blogosphere is doing a great job of disseminating some of the
> movement's best ideas. If nothing else, we libertarians have mobilized
> online. Another good way to spread our memes is to find thought
> leaders. There are groups out there doing just that and we can always
> use more.
>
> But what is it that we want to spread? Mental models, maybe. The basic=== message truncated ===
<image.tiff>
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! ñ Try it today!
<image.tiff>
<image.tiff>
Ron,
From these numbers that someone posted to the Badnarik campaign list, it doesn't look like Badnarik had more money than Nader:
Dear Starchild;
I heard Nader speak on TV some KQED thing not in person and he wasn't articulating too well when I listened to him. And he was just as misguided then as now. And he's still unsafe at any speed!!!!
On the money stuff and the vote tallies. I do not beleive we will ever know the true ballot count. As the only way to do that is what Cobb and Badnarik are trying to due in raising the money needed to force a re-count - I believe in Ohio???
I also believe electronic touch screen paperless vote counts are an open invite for massive voter fraud.
And 400,000 lastest count votes for Michael Badnarik.( AHHHHHH ) it just ain't enuf!!! So we're still stuck with that MORON in the White House for another 4 years! At least he's a lame duck MORON!!!
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Ron,
From these numbers that someone posted to the Badnarik campaign list,
it doesn't look like Badnarik had more money than Nader:
Dear Starchild:
My comment about not selling-out was not directed to Ron. It was directed to you!
Have a great day,
Leilani
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Leilani,
I don't think Ron is advocating "selling out" [It's very hard to
credibly criticize someone crying "revolution!" as a sell-out 8) ] but
I think that's a fair description of the prescription offered by the
original article that was posted. It was that article to which I was
primarily responding. If you have ideas on how we can overhaul the LP
to make ourselves more effective without abandoning the pursuit of what
we're fighting for, I'm all ears.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Leilani,
I wasn't primarily trying to counter your words in the paragraph below, but to clarify my own. I was the one who had previously written something that could be interpreted as accusing Ron of advocating selling out.
If you have ideas for a party overhaul, I'm still all ears. And not just in a "put up or shut up" way -- valuing your perspective not only as a strongly principled Libertarian but as a gender and ethnic minority in the party representing demographics we'd like to better connect with, I really would like to hear anything you may come up with.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Starchild:
My comment about not selling-out was not directed to Ron. It was directed to you!
Have a great day,
LeilaniStarchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Leilani,
I don't think Ron is advocating "selling out" [It's very hard to
credibly criticize someone crying "revolution!" as a sell-out 8) ] but
I think that's a fair description of the prescription offered by the
original article that was posted. It was that article to which I was
primarily responding. If you have ideas on how we can overhaul the LP
to make ourselves more effective without abandoning the pursuit of what
we're fighting for, I'm all ears.Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>> Dear Ron:
>
> I could not have put it better. I concur with both your
> comments/rebuttal and the originators words. And this is not because I
> am disappointed with the results of the recent election. I, as well as
> the rest of us knew (or should have known,) that the result was a
> foregone conclusion. However, (in my opinion,) the over-haul is long
> overdue. I am not trying to decry the accomplishments of the founders
> and others that have worked hard to bring the party to fruition;
> having said that, many great ideas at some point can use sometime fine
> tuning to adapt to the present conditions instead of the past when
> it/they were incepted. Otherwise, we would still be flying Bi-planes
> and driving the earliest versions of automobiles, etcetera. This does
> not have to mean that it is a sell-out.
>
> Leilani
>
> Ronald Getty wrote:
>
> Dear Starchild;
>
> Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract
> money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for
> a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
>
> Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of
> money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single
> ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
>
> A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition
> needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and
> what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming
> a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site
> with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
>
> Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still
> stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and
> lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of
> the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can
> create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and
> parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more
> than 300,000 votes.
>
> Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of
> the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no
> nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention
> by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this
> person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real
> presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We
> certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say
> something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a
> the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
>
> Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to
> think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What
> would this country come to if people started thinking about who they
> should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or
> else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the
> people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy
> combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be
> seen again if they don't vote your way.
>
> That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep
> of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral
> values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want
> when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn
> about it.
>
> It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La
> Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt
> against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because
> We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From
> You ."
>
> Ron Getty
> SF LIbertarian
> Starchild wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when some
> Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going in
> -- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
> right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
> where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
> conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
> establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
> mistaken one. More comments follow...
>
> > Dear Everyone;
> >
> > The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
> > truth.
> >
> > It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
> > spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
> > Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk
> of
> > politics."
>
> A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
> election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
> attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could just
> put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
> elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
> then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
> Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to stay
> principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
> efficiently, we won't get them back.
>
> > You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
> > line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
> > will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
> > million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend on
> > just one ad!
> >
> > Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens of
> > millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot in
> > every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
>
> It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
> people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one alternative
> candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving much
> less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
> gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke, or
> a waste of time? Hardly.
>
> > Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you have
> a
> > candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
> > apparatus that can do likewise.
>
> We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
> you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
> politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about the
> race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
> Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
> what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
> number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign, even
> one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
> has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
> when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
> Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
> candidates.
>
> > As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
> > Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how the
> > Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think the
> > Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups focused
> > around a focal point.
> >
> > It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
> > itself and its message.
>
> More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and doing
> the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
> libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out of
> pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
> grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
> excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
>
> See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
>
> > Ron Getty
> > SF Libertarian
> >
> >
> > Mike Denny wrote:
> >
> > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> > This is a good one Scott˜.IÃm sending to our local list.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Denny
> >
> > Libertarian Party of San Francisco
> >
> > (415) 986-7677 x123
> >
> > mike@...
> >
> > www.MichaelDenny.net
> >
> > www.LPSF.org
> >
> > From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@…]
> > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
> > To: Scott Brown
> > Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)
> >
> >
> >
> > Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
> > By Max Borders
> > Published
> > 11/12/2004
> >
> > The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians
> don't
> > even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it.
> Why?
> > Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
>
> I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
> have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than by
> voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
> statement of allegiance.
>
> > And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some of
> > us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote
> Democrat
> > because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
> > church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
> > polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in our
> > community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
> > all the wrong reasons.
>
> Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
> Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
> want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more of
> their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of things.
>
> > Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
> > voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
> > call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going to
> > the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik at
> > the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in an
> > election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
> > instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
> > "consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
> > democracy is the only game in town.
> >
> > Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's
> why
> > if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
> > door, we have to prepare to change.
>
> That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
> for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
> less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
> certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
> this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
> voting do not make the case for it.
>
> > Playing the Game
> >
> > Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting the
> > mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
>
> Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
> who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
> Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
>
> > If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going
> to
> > have to get some people into office.
>
> We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
> other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
>
> > Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R and
> > acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
>
> That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
>
> > But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and out.
> > But how do we do that?
>
> We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
> for Schwarzenegger.
>
> > First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
> > libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.) Keep
> > it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill of
> > Rights.
>
> Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
> bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
> But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
> alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
> that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
>
> > There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting
> people
> > on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
> > employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means we
> > need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then, will
> > we start to see some interest from the masses.
>
> There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
> hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
> methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
> have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
> for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
> the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
>
> > They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times have
> > you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
> > fiscally conservative?"
>
> Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
> describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
> description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
> where Libertarians are coming from.
>
> > Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the
> polls,
> > or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
> > system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
> > first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
> > how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
> > Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?
> >
> > A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
> >
> > From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking
> points.
> > Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
> > change -- maybe even the name.
>
> Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any better
> plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all the
> Libertarians to follow his concept.
>
> > Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw around
> > terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it
> came
> > from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it
> just
> > smells funny to people.
>
> Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
> using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
> very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas to
> the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
> in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
> destructive.
>
> > One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
> > Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
> > best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from
> the
> > Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then
> avoid
> > the rest like the plague.
>
> Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
> they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
>
> > Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
> > ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
> > good time to start experimenting.)
>
> There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
> but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
>
> > How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On the
> > red side you see the words low taxes˜ security˜ fiscal
> > responsibility˜parental choice in education˜One the blue side you see
> > civil liberties˜ freedom to live my life my way˜a woman's right to
> > choose˜The two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
> > Libertarian Party˜ Americais deserves the best of both.Or some such.
> > TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the
> first
> > step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
>
> Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
> is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
>
> > From Principles to Pragmatics
>
> From Libertarian to Demopublican.
>
> > "The Party of Principle."
> >
> > Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just
> made
> > your bile duct secrete.
>
> Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
> secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a slogan
> like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
> stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
> instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
>
> > Most people think their party is the party of principle.
>
> Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
>
> > The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean you
> > throw the baby out with the bathwater, it simply means you think
> > strategically about how to reach out to people. It means being
> > realistic. Incremental. Manipulative, even.
>
> Of course throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what
> he's proposing. The prescription offered earlier in this essay was to
> take the best of the Democrats' and Republicans' offerings and "avoid
> the rest like the plague."
>
> > For example: "support the repeal of all taxation." Now, a repeal of
> > taxation implies there should be no taxes at all, which means no
> state
> > at all (as there would be no revenue stream for a state to exist).
> > What else are we to infer? Unless you're trying to woo the bloggers
> at
> > LewRockwell.com, you might consider moderating both the message and
> > the views. Instead, how about "do away with the income tax" or
> > "support a national sales tax?" Then you can talk about how we could
> > retire the IRS and save a lot of money. Everybody hates the IRS.
> > Everybody likes money saved. Nobody likes anarchy, even if it's
> > coupled with a warm and fuzzy term like "capitalism."
>
> Seeing "capitalism" as a warm and fuzzy term is a sign of being out of
> touch. The term is necessary perhaps, but hardly warm or fuzzy. It's at
> least as misunderstood as "anarchy," and even more negatively perceived
> in many places.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Alternatively, more like this (from the LP site) would be good:
> >
> > "Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people,
> > including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we
> > believe the government should be kept out of the question."=== message truncated ===
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Dear Starchild:
I appreciate both the clarification and the invitation. I do object however, to arbitrary classification. The designation of female I do not object to, but I object strongly to any racial or "ethnic" labels. First of all, I was born and raised in Berkeley to multi-racial/cultural parents, in a multi-racial/cultural environment. I, and I alone decided who and what I am. Neither my parents nor did my society indoctrinate me into any imposed "culture,"or identity. The only other label besides female will I accept is the same as everyone else; and that is human. I am thankful for the enviroment that I grew-up in, as I do not have preconceived notions about race or "ethnicity" when I inter-act with others.
I am very busy right now, as my orals are coming up in January, my Latin Final is next month, and I must finish my dissertation. I would be happy to dis-course with you further however, on these and other subjects when I am able.
Yours in Anarchy, (and Liberty, of course.)
Leilani
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Leilani,
I wasn't primarily trying to counter your words in the paragraph
below, but to clarify my own. I was the one who had previously written
something that could be interpreted as accusing Ron of advocating
selling out.
If you have ideas for a party overhaul, I'm still all ears. And not
just in a "put up or shut up" way -- valuing your perspective not only
as a strongly principled Libertarian but as a gender and ethnic
minority in the party representing demographics we'd like to better
connect with, I really would like to hear anything you may come up with.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Leilani,
Good for you. I wish everyone was so progressive-minded. Feel free to continue the discussion on party strategy whenever you have time.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Starchild:
I appreciate both the clarification and the invitation. I do object however, to arbitrary classification. The designation of female I do not object to, but I object strongly to any racial or "ethnic" labels. First of all, I was born and raised in Berkeley to multi-racial/cultural parents, in a multi-racial/cultural environment. I, and I alone decided who and what I am. Neither my parents nor did my society indoctrinate me into any imposed "culture,"or identity. The only other label besides female will I accept is the same as everyone else; and that is human. I am thankful for the enviroment that I grew-up in, as I do not have preconceived notions about race or "ethnicity" when I inter-act with others.
I am very busy right now, as my orals are coming up in January, my Latin Final is next month, and I must finish my dissertation. I would be happy to dis-course with you further however, on these and other subjects when I am able.Yours in Anarchy, (and Liberty, of course.)
Leilani
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:Leilani,
I wasn't primarily trying to counter your words in the paragraph
below, but to clarify my own. I was the one who had previously written
something that could be interpreted as accusing Ron of advocating
selling out.If you have ideas for a party overhaul, I'm still all ears. And not
just in a "put up or shut up" way -- valuing your perspective not only
as a strongly principled Libertarian but as a gender and ethnic
minority in the party representing demographics we'd like to better
connect with, I really would like to hear anything you may come up with.Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>> Dear Starchild:
> My comment about not selling-out was not directed to Ron. It was
> directed to you!
> Have a great day,
> Leilani
>
> Starchild wrote:
>
> Leilani,
>
> I don't think Ron is advocating "selling out" [It's very hard to
> credibly criticize someone crying "revolution!" as a sell-out 8) ] but
> I think that's a fair description of the prescription offered by the
> original article that was posted. It was that article to which I was
> primarily responding. If you have ideas on how we can overhaul the LP
> to make ourselves more effective without abandoning the pursuit of what
> we're fighting for, I'm all ears.
>
> Yours in liberty,
> <<< Starchild >>>
>
> > Dear Ron:
> >
> > I could not have put it better. I concur with both your
> > comments/rebuttal and the originators words. And this is not because
> I
> > am disappointed with the results of the recent election. I, as well
> as
> > the rest of us knew (or should have known,) that the result was a
> > foregone conclusion. However, (in my opinion,) the over-haul is long
> > overdue. I am not trying to decry the accomplishments of the
> founders
> > and others that have worked hard to bring the party to fruition;
> > having said that, many great ideas at some point can use sometime
> fine
> > tuning to adapt to the present conditions instead of the past when
> > it/they were incepted. Otherwise, we would still be flying Bi-planes
> > and driving the earliest versions of automobiles, etcetera. This does
> > not have to mean that it is a sell-out.
> >
> > Leilani
> >
> > Ronald Getty wrote:
> >
> > Dear Starchild;
> >
> > Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract
> > money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having
> power for
> > a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
> >
> > Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of
> > money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single
> > ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
> >
> > A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition
> > needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and
> > what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming
> > a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site
> > with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
> >
> > Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still
> > stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and
> > lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of
> > the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can
> > create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and
> > parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more
> > than 300,000 votes.
> >
> > Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of
> > the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some
> no
> > nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to
> mention
> > by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of
> this
> > person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real
> > presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We
> > certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say
> > something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to
> a
> > the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
> >
> > Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to
> > think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What
> > would this country come to if people started thinking about who they
> > should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or
> > else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the
> > people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy
> > combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to
> be
> > seen again if they don't vote your way.
> >
> > That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep
> > of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their
> moral
> > values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want
> > when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn
> > about it.
> >
> > It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La
> > Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt
> > against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because
> > We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From
> > You ."
> >
> > Ron Getty
> > SF LIbertarian
> > Starchild wrote:
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > This kind of talk seems to surface after every big election, when
> some
> > Libertarians -- usually those who had unrealistic expectations going
> in
> > -- are discouraged by the results. Not understanding what we've done
> > right and how the party has flourished and grown to its present level
> > where so many alternative parties have failed, they jump to the
> > conclusion that the LP needs to be more pragmatic and more like the
> > establishment parties. It's a somewhat understandable attitude, but a
> > mistaken one. More comments follow...
> >
> > > Dear Everyone;
> > >
> > > The article about re-formatting the Libertarian Party speaks to the
> > > truth.
> > >
> > > It also means nominating a Presidential candidate who can raise and
> > > spend millions. As former San Francisco now deceased member of
> > > Congress Phil Burton once said publicly; "Money is the mothers milk
> > of
> > > politics."
> >
> > A political party should not be for sale. Sure, money can help win an
> > election battle in the short term. But if you sacrifice principle to
> > attract money, you've lost the war. Do you think that the LP could
> just
> > put its principles on the shelf until it had won a few high-profile
> > elections and was competing with the Republicans and Democrats, and
> > then take them down and dust them off and have them be good as new?
> > Hardly. The more power an organization wields, the harder it is to
> stay
> > principled. If we discard them in order to go after power more
> > efficiently, we won't get them back.
> >
> > > You can nominate a Presidential candidate who articulates the party
> > > line but if he doesn't have any money forget about it. The message
> > > will never get across. While Michael Badnarik raised and spent a
> > > million that's how much either of them other two jokes would spend
> on
> > > just one ad!
> > >
> > > Unless you have a party which is prepared to raise and spend tens
> of
> > > millions forget the presidential race and getting on every ballot
> in
> > > every state. 300,000 votes out of 115 million cast is a joke.
> >
> > It's not a joke. That's insulting to a whole bunch of hard-working
> > people who don't deserve it. We did better than all but one
> alternative
> > candidate (Nader) and came close to beating him, despite receiving
> much
> > less media coverage. Sure, we'd all like Michael Badnarik to have
> > gotten a lot more votes. Does that mean that his running was a joke,
> or
> > a waste of time? Hardly.
> >
> > > Concentrate on local offices and forget the Big Bust unless you
> have
> > a
> > > candidate who can raise and spend tens of millions and a party
> > > apparatus that can do likewise.
> >
> > We had a number of local candidates here in San Francisco, Ron. But
> > you're not talking about them. You're talking about presidential
> > politics. Most people are no different. They care a lot more about
> the
> > race for president than the race for Congress or School Board.
> > Especially non-political people, many of whom don't even have a clue
> > what the School Board does. I know -- I've fielded that question a
> > number of times over the past few months. A presidential campaign,
> even
> > one that only gets 1/2 a percent of the vote, attracts attention and
> > has a visibility in the media that local campaigns cannot match, even
> > when you have strong local candidates running. Many current
> > Libertarians have found out about the party through our presidential
> > candidates.
> >
> > > As far as reaching out to new group segments by altering the
> > > Libertarian message to reflect a groups cultural values - and how
> the
> > > Libertarian message does reflect those values. What do you think
> the
> > > Reps and Dems have been doing all along? Focused focus groups
> focused
> > > around a focal point.
> > >
> > > It's time for a sea change in how the Libertarian Party presents
> > > itself and its message.
> >
> > More libertarians actually getting active at the local level and
> doing
> > the necessary work would make a lot more of a difference. Too many
> > libertarians are standing on the sidelines complaining, whether out
> of
> > pique that everyone in the party isn't jumping up to follow *their*
> > grand strategic plan, or simply using the LP's imperfection as an
> > excuse not to get more involved in fighting for liberty.
> >
> > See further comments interspersed with the essay below...
> >
> > > Ron Getty
> > > SF Libertarian
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Denny wrote:
> > >
> > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:*
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> > > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
> }
> > > This is a good one Scottò.I√m sending to our local list.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Denny
> > >
> > > Libertarian Party of San Francisco
> > >
> > > (415) 986-7677 x123
> > >
> > > mike@...
> > >
> > > www.MichaelDenny.net
> > >
> > > www.LPSF.org
> > >
> > > From:Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown@trashmanage.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:11 PM
> > > To: Scott Brown
> > > Subject: Try this one (Modified by Scott Brown)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Libertarianism's Extreme Makeover
> > > By Max Borders
> > > Published
> > > 11/12/2004
> > >
> > > The Libertarian Party is politically moribund. Most libertarians
> > don't
> > > even vote for the Libertarian Party, much less affiliate with it.
> > Why?
> > > Because we have a pragmatic streak that we just can't shake.
> >
> > I wouldn't call it a pragmatic streak. As the author notes, you'll
> > have a greater impact on politics by calling in to a radio show than
> by
> > voting. Voting is not particularly pragmatic; it's an act of faith, a
> > statement of allegiance.
> >
> > > And that comes simply from being American. It's in our bones. Some
> of
> > > us vote Republican because we care about defense. Others vote
> > Democrat
> > > because we're afraid Crusaders will overrun the barricades between
> > > church and state. In either case, we hold our noses and go to the
> > > polls just to feel some civic connection with all those folks in
> our
> > > community -- even though we know they are wrong, and are voting for
> > > all the wrong reasons.
> >
> > Now I suspect that is closer to the heart of the matter. Being a
> > Libertarian can feel lonely. People can't stand feeling lonely, they
> > want more sense of civic connection, so they vote the way that more
> of
> > their neighbors are voting so that they'll feel more a part of
> things.
> >
> > > Most libertarians understand the profoundly irrational aspect of
> > > voting -- i.e. that you'll have a greater effect on politics if you
> > > call in to a radio show and say something clever instead of going
> to
> > > the polls. You have a better chance running into Michael Badnarik
> at
> > > the Piggly Wiggly than having your vote be the deciding factor in
> an
> > > election. In the meantime, the teeming hordes follow their baser
> > > instincts all the way to the church basement and vote their
> > > "consciences." But aside from the Constitution and the Courts,
> > > democracy is the only game in town.
> > >
> > > Thus, things can't get any lower for many libertarians. And that's
> > why
> > > if we're going to keep trying to enter politics through the front
> > > door, we have to prepare to change.
> >
> > That's a non-sequitur. Your vote has no greater an impact if you vote
> > for a Democrat or Republican than if you vote Libertarian. Slightly
> > less, actually. If there is a need for the LP to change -- and there
> > certainly *is* a need for change, just not of the kind advocated in
> > this article -- the fears of mainstream voters and the mathematics of
> > voting do not make the case for it.
> >
> > > Playing the Game
> > >
> > > Libertarians must get it together. That's going to mean shifting
> the
> > > mindset, overhauling the current LP, and spending lots of money.
> >
> > Where is the money going to come from, and who's going to give money
> > who isn't giving it now, and what's going to motivate them to do so?
> > Those obvious questions are left unanswered.
> >
> > > If we're going to have an effect on electoral politics, we're going
> > to
> > > have to get some people into office.
> >
> > We have some people in office. Over 600, which is more than all the
> > other alternative parties in the U.S. combined.
> >
> > > Now, for the immediate term, that may mean running as a D or an R
> and
> > > acting like Ron Paul -- or even supporting a Schwarzenegger.
> >
> > That certainly isn't going to help the LP grow.
> >
> > > But the other option is to begin transforming the LP inside and
> out.
> > > But how do we do that?
> >
> > We don't do it by running as Democrats or Republicans, or by voting
> > for Schwarzenegger.
> >
> > > First we need to define ourselves better. Some people think
> > > libertarians are the party of Lyndon LaRouche. (I kid you not.)
> Keep
> > > it simple. At the moment, our elevator pitch sounds like the Bill
> of
> > > Rights.
> >
> > Of course it's good to be able to deliver our ideas in pithy sound
> > bites when the occasion requires it. No mystery or controversy there.
> > But I see no evidence that people correctly understand what other
> > alternative parties stand for, and are just confused about the LP. If
> > that were true, then this criticism might have greater validity.
> >
> > > There's nothing wrong with the Constitution, but sadly, getting
> > people
> > > on board requires lowering ourselves to the level of vacuous talk
> > > employed by our bigger, better bipartisan counterparts. That means
> we
> > > need a simple, visceral message that works. Then, and only then,
> will
> > > we start to see some interest from the masses.
> >
> > There are better ways and worse ways of teaching liberty, but I'm
> > hardly convinced there is *a* simple way that *works* while all other
> > methods, by implication, do not. The Democrats and Republicans don't
> > have simple, visceral messages. They appeal to many different people
> > for many different reasons. Ask people why they vote for one party or
> > the other and you'll hear tons of different answers.
> >
> > > They're libertarian and they don't even know it. How many times
> have
> > > you heard someone describe him-or-herself as "socially liberal, but
> > > fiscally conservative?"
> >
> > Many people do fit this description, but I rarely hear them use it to
> > describe themselves. Libertarians are the ones who usually use the
> > description. I often use it myself when I need a quick explanation of
> > where Libertarians are coming from.
> >
> > > Many of these are the people who either hold their noses at the
> > polls,
> > > or simply don't bother. They are disenfranchised by the two-party
> > > system and the "Party of Principle" just isn't reaching them. The
> > > first order of business should be to tap this political market. But
> > > how do you get these libertarians-who-don't-know-it interested?
> > > Indeed, how do you steal them from the major parties?
> > >
> > > A Purple Brand and an Unyielding Media Blitz
> > >
> > > From the nominated candidates, to the branding, to the talking
> > points.
> > > Everything visible about the current LP (and the Movement) has to
> > > change -- maybe even the name.
> >
> > Then again, maybe not. The author certainly hasn't laid out any
> better
> > plan -- or more pragmatically, explained how he's going to get all
> the
> > Libertarians to follow his concept.
> >
> > > Consider the stereotypes of utopians and pot-smokers who throw
> around
> > > terms like "individual rights," "coercion," and "statism" like it
> > came
> > > from the Randian Scriptures. Rectitude isn't worth a dime when it
> > just
> > > smells funny to people.
> >
> > Instead of attacking your allies in print for daring to dream, for
> > using words that mean things, for being right, subtly reinforcing the
> > very stereotypes you supposedly find troublesome, explain the ideas
> to
> > the public in a way that doesn't "smell funny" without betraying them
> > in the process. The sentences above are worse than useless, they're
> > destructive.
> >
> > > One approach might be to tap into this popular blue-red dichotomy.
> > > Start coloring everything LP purple. Make it obvious that we're the
> > > best of both parties. Take the top Libertarian talking points from
> > the
> > > Rs and the Ds and merge them to make the LP talking points. Then
> > avoid
> > > the rest like the plague.
> >
> > Run away from content, run away from ideas. Put them on the shelf,
> > they'll be there later when we need them. No, they won't.
> >
> > > Who are we? The best way to tell the world about us is through good
> > > ole advertising -- name your medium. (Midterm elections might be a
> > > good time to start experimenting.)
> >
> > There's a place for advertising, especially in a national campaign,
> > but it should not be the main focus of the party's outreach.
> >
> > > How about this for a commercial?: split screen, red and blue. On
> the
> > > red side you see the words low taxesò securityò fiscal
> > > responsibilityòparental choice in educationòOne the blue side you
> see
> > > civil libertiesò freedom to live my life my wayòa woman's right to
> > > chooseòThe two sides merge into a large, purple screen. The New
> > > Libertarian Partyò Americais deserves the best of both.Or some
> such.
> > > TV, Radio, Newspaper, Internet. Again, defining ourselves is the
> > first
> > > step. And we're going to have to spend money doing it.
> >
> > Except for the "New Libertarian Party" part, this red/blue/purple ad
> > is the only good idea I've read in this essay so far.
> >
> > > From Principles to Pragmatics
> >
> > From Libertarian to Demopublican.
> >
> > > "The Party of Principle."
> > >
> > > Unless you just put down the Fountainhead, reading that line just
> > made
> > > your bile duct secrete.
> >
> > Wrong. "The Party of Pragmatism" -- now that would make my bile duct
> > secrete. Of course the pragmatists would never dream of using a
> slogan
> > like "The Party of Pragmatism" -- even they know that the concept
> > stinks to high heaven once you name it as such. That's why they talk
> > instead about the need to manipulate people (see below).
> >
> > > Most people think their party is the party of principle.
> >
> > Oh? I don't see any evidence of that.
> >
> > > The LP should get rid of that slogan, and fast. That doesn't mean=== message truncated ===
<image.tiff>
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! ñ Get yours free!
<image.tiff>
<image.tiff>
Dear Starchild;
Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to attract money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having power for a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said that!!!
Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount of money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a single ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national recognition needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is and what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider becoming a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web site with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
During a presidential campaign cycle, a million dollars invested in a presidential campaign arguably goes farther in terms of educating people about libertarianism than the same amount of money would if spent by the LP in almost any other conventional way.
Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money and lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the loudspeakers of the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you can create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get more than 300,000 votes.
If all you're saying is that it would be nice if Libertarians had a lot of money with which to spread our ideas, then I agree with you. 8)
Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be part of the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from some no nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to mention by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea of this person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two real presidentail candidates from two real political parties. HAH! We certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being led to a the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
I don't doubt that Perot would have been arrested too, had he tried to crash a presidential debate in 1996 when he wasn't invited, his billionaire status notwithstanding.
Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for. What would this country come to if people started thinking about who they should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never to be seen again if they don't vote your way.
That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush Bleep of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their moral values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you want when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a damn about it.
It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the revolt against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole From You ."
You want an American Che Guevara? Me too (at least as he was in myth). But if that's what you want then you better stick with idealism and principles, because a party grounded in a spirit of pragmatism and primarily focused on attracting money as its means of attaining influence will hold little attraction for that kind of revolutionary spirit.
Fight the power!
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Starchild;
Nice to see you getting caught up on old postings.
As they say in the University of Revolutions: Of the Libertarian -
By The Libertarian and For The Libertarian.
And since a Revolutionary Army like any other army marches on its
stomach (Napolean did say that) a little money sprinkled here and
there ain't all that bad.
While the mythical Che(HOW DID an Argentinian doctor end up with
Castro?) was for the common man and his principles did show this and
in his writings. Che wrote a fairly decent book called: Guerilla
Warfare covering training, tactics and porpaganda. Available at
Amazon.com with a special discount package to include: On Guerilla
Warfare by Zedong Mao. Or it can be found at your local
revolutionary bookstore.
He also was a very pragmatic and ferocious guerilla fighter in Cuba
earning the title Commandante. Although someone should have gotten
his head out of the clouds before he went to the Congo and
ultimately Bolivia to fight on behalf of the people's war against
the entrenched regimes. His methodology wasn't able to stand up to
trained, well-led counter-guerilla troops. Especially when led and
trained by Green Berets under the command of paramilitary CIA
agents.
FIGHT TAXES!!!
And it's okay to include: Fight Tyranny - Fight Injustice - Fight
Shredding of Civil Liberties and Civil Rights!!!
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@e...>
wrote:
> Dear Starchild;
>
> Who said anything about sacrificing Libertarian principles to
attract
> money?? Or putting the Libertarian party up for sale? Having
power for
> a Libertarian does not mean giving up principles. Who said
that!!!
>
> Michael Badnarik running for president wasn't a joke. The amount
of
> money raised on his behalf was in comparison to the cost of a
single
> ad run by the two jokes from those other two jokes of a party.
>
> A million dollars is nice but it doesn't get the national
recognition
> needed to help people understand who and what a Libertarian is
and
> what a Libertarian stands for and why people should consider
becoming
> a Libertarian or even convince them there is a Libertarian web
site
> with great stuff on it about becoming a Libertarian.
During a presidential campaign cycle, a million dollars
invested in a
presidential campaign arguably goes farther in terms of educating
people about libertarianism than the same amount of money would if
spent by the LP in almost any other conventional way.> Say what you want about pragmatics. Phil Burtons statement still
> stands, "money is the mothers milk of politics." Without money
and
> lots of it you don't have a chance of overcoming the
loudspeakers of
> the Reps and Dems. With the needed investment capital then you
can
> create a groundswell of support across states and boundaries and
> parties for a Libertarian presidential candidate who will get
more
> than 300,000 votes.
If all you're saying is that it would be nice if
Libertarians had a
lot of money with which to spread our ideas, then I agree with
you. 8)
> Then you won't have someone arrested because he wanted to be
part of
> the taxpayer funded presidential debates because he was a from
some no
> nothing no name political party who we shouldn't even deign to
mention
> by name as we look down our long snooty noses at the very idea
of this
> person presuming he could be in a Presidential debate with two
real
> presidentail candidates from two real political parties.
HAH! We
> certainly must have only a dem or a rep getting a chance to say
> something to the vast unwashed masses of bleating sheep being
led to a
> the slaughter by The MORON in the White House.
I don't doubt that Perot would have been arrested too, had
he tried to
crash a presidential debate in 1996 when he wasn't invited, his
billionaire status notwithstanding.> Other view points? Never happen! People might actually start to
> think!!! We can't have people thinking about who to vote for.
What
> would this country come to if people started thinking about who
they
> should vote for. Vote for the person you are told to vote for or
> else!!! You want political power? Now that's real power to the
> people!!! The power from being able to declare someone an enemy
> combatant and having them whisked away to never never land never
to be
> seen again if they don't vote your way.
>
> That's what all that money bought! It wasn't about all the Bush
Bleep
> of the good he was going to do for everyone and fulfilling their
moral
> values. Bush Bleat! It was about retaining power to do what you
want
> when you want when you feel like it. And not having to give a
damn
> about it.
>
> It's time for another American Revolution!!!!! Viva La
> Revoluciones!!! We need an American Che Guevera to lead the
revolt
> against the Robbing Hoods of the "Taxes are Good for You Because
> We Are The Ones Who Know Best On How To Spend The Money We Stole
From
> You ."
You want an American Che Guevara? Me too (at least as he was
in myth).
But if that's what you want then you better stick with idealism
and
principles, because a party grounded in a spirit of pragmatism and
primarily focused on attracting money as its means of attaining
influence will hold little attraction for that kind of
revolutionary
I haven't read Che Guevara's "Guerilla Warfare." But according to an extremely unflattering June 2002 article by Humberto Fontova, the real Che was not much of a guerilla fighter. This article was the cover-story of the San Francisco Herald paper last April, and it's also online at http://www.futurodecuba.org/The%20Real%20Che%20Guevara.htm . Here's part of it...
<<< Starchild >>>
Statistically speaking, a nocturnal stroll through Central Park offers more
peril than Castro’s rebels faced from the dreaded army of the beastly
Fulgencio Batista. According to Bethel, the U.S. embassy was a little
skeptical about all the battlefield bloodshed and heroics and investigated.
They ran down every reliable lead and eyewitness account of what the New York
Times called a "bloody civil war with thousands dead in single battles!”
They found that in the countryside, in those two years of "ferocious”
battles, the total casualties on BOTH sides actually ran to 182. New Orleans
has an annual murder rate DOUBLE that.
Alas, the Viet Cong took their lessons from guerrilla leaders who – get
this, Che groupies – actually fought in a guerrilla war. Yes, where people
shoot back and everything. Che eventually tried his hand at this novelty and
... well. We saw what happened. He was run out of Africa with his tail
between his legs in months. Then in Bolivia he and his merry band of bumblers
was betrayed, encircled and decimated in short order.
Dissed by Mao
Real guerrillas had Che’s number. Mao refused to see him when he visited
China. He had him cool his heels in a reception room for two hours, then
stood him up. He knew.
Che the Lionhearted’s image is still ubiquitous on college campuses. But in
the wrong places. He belongs in the marketing, PR, advertising –and
especially - psychology departments. His lessons and history are fascinating
and valuable, but only in light of Sigmund Freud or P.T. Barnum. One born
every minute, Mr. Barnum? If only you’d lived to see the Che phenomenon.
Actually, 10 are born every second.
Here’s a "guerilla hero” who in real life never fought in a guerilla war.
When he finally brushed up against one, he was routed.
Che excelled in one thing: mass murder of defenseless men. He was a
Stalinist to the core, a plodding bureaucrat and a calm, cold-blooded -but
again, never in actual battle – killer. And there was an actual method to
this murderous madness.
Recall that in 1940 Stalin’s commissars rounded up the Polish officer corps,
herded them into the Katyn Forest and slaughtered them to a man. Stalin
didn’t want any Polish contras messing up his plans. These officers would
have led them. So his men dug a huge mass grave and lined up the Polish
officers. The Russian pistol barrels went up against the back of the neck:
POW! ... Thump. Fifteen thousand shots later the deed was done and the dirt
replaced. Any contra problem was nipped in the bud.
Che followed suit in Cuba. As a communist flunkie in Guatemala he’d seen the
Guatemalan officer corps rise up against the communist Arbenz government in
'54. (And you pinko professors please stifle the noise about Arbenz as
harmless "social democrat” and "nationalist” victimized by the fiendish
United Fruit Co., OK? When ousted, Arbenz sought refuge in Czechoslovakia,
not Sweden.)
Beloved Mass Murderer
Anyway, Che didn’t want a repeat in Cuba.. Upon entering Havana in January
59 he started rounding up all Army officers. Then - FUEGO!! - his firing
squads got busy – real busy. By his own count, Che sent 2,500 men to "the
wall.”
The "Cuban Katyn ” I call this slaughter. The reds called these executed men
"war criminals” and the Beltway press naturally parroted the charge. Nothing
new here.
The New York Times’ (Pulitzer-winning, no less) reporter Walter Duranty had
parroted Stalin and Beria’s charges against the victims of the 1930s show
trials, too. Later, they, along with Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy and Tip O’Neill,
labeled Nicaragua’s contra’s "war criminals.” But today Nicaragua is free
because of them.
Che’s true legacy is simply one of terror and murder. That dreaded midnight
knock. Wives and daughters screaming in rage and panic as Che’s goons drag
off their dads and husbands - that’s the real Che’s legacy.
Desperate crowds of weeping daughters and shrieking mothers clubbed with
rifle butts outside La Cabana as Che’s firing squads murder their dads and
sons inside - that’s the real Che legacy.
Thousands of heroes yelling "Viva Cuba Libre !” and "Viva Christo Rey !”
before firing squads of murderous drunks whom they’d have stomped in open
battle - that’s the real Che legacy.
Secret graves and crude boxes with the bullet-riddled corpses delivered to
ashen-faced loved ones - that’s the real Che legacy.
And let’s not forget the craven, "Don’t shoot! I’m Che . I’m worth more to
you live than dead!” (Then why didn’t he save his last bullet for himself?)
Perhaps the defiant yells of the men he murdered actually affected Che the
Lionhearted?
By 1960 he started ordering that his victims’ mouths be taped shut. Perhaps
there was a trace of human emotion in this icy dolt after all? Genuine
bravery and defiance unnerved him.
When the wheels of justice finally turned, Che was revealed as unworthy to
carry his victims' slop buckets. He learned nothing from their bravery. He
could only beg for his life. So yes, the craven request when cornered in
Bolivia is also the real Che legacy.
Dear Starchild;
Maybe that's why Amazon books grouped Che's Guerilla Warfare with Zedong Mao On Guerilla Warfare for a discount package. Then the two could be compared. One a real guerilla fighter and the other a wannabe against a so - so army. Obviously Che did not have to do a 1,000 mile march even if it was against the corrupt Kuomintang Army of the uncorruptible Chiang Kai-Shek and his uncorruptible war lords.
It's always easy to win "battles" when you're fighting paper tigers. But as Bush will never learn when you go up against terrorists, insurgents, freedom fighters and religious fanatics you will never win the hearts and minds of the people. Especially when you use massive firepower to destroy whole cities in an attempt to destroy the enemies base of operations. All those nasty civilian casualties conveniently explained away as collateral damage.
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
I haven't read Che Guevara's "Guerilla Warfare." But according to an
extremely unflattering June 2002 article by Humberto Fontova, the real
Che was not much of a guerilla fighter. This article was the
cover-story of the San Francisco Herald paper last April, and it's also
online at http://www.futurodecuba.org/The%20Real%20Che%20Guevara.htm .
Here's part of it...
<<< Starchild >>>
Statistically speaking, a nocturnal stroll through Central Park
offers more
peril than Castro�s rebels faced from the dreaded army of the beastly
Fulgencio Batista. According to Bethel, the U.S. embassy was a little
skeptical about all the battlefield bloodshed and heroics and
investigated.
They ran down every reliable lead and eyewitness account of what the
New York
Times called a "bloody civil war with thousands dead in single battles!�
They found that in the countryside, in those two years of "ferocious�
battles, the total casualties on BOTH sides actually ran to 182. New
Orleans
has an annual murder rate DOUBLE that.
Alas, the Viet Cong took their lessons from guerrilla leaders who � get
this, Che groupies � actually fought in a guerrilla war. Yes, where
people
shoot back and everything. Che eventually tried his hand at this
novelty and
... well. We saw what happened. He was run out of Africa with his tail
between his legs in months. Then in Bolivia he and his merry band of
bumblers
was betrayed, encircled and decimated in short order.
Dissed by Mao
Real guerrillas had Che�s number. Mao refused to see him when he
visited
China. He had him cool his heels in a reception room for two hours, then
stood him up. He knew.
Che the Lionhearted�s image is still ubiquitous on college campuses.
But in
the wrong places. He belongs in the marketing, PR, advertising �and
especially - psychology departments. His lessons and history are
fascinating
and valuable, but only in light of Sigmund Freud or P.T. Barnum. One
born
every minute, Mr. Barnum? If only you�d lived to see the Che phenomenon.
Actually, 10 are born every second.
Here�s a "guerilla hero� who in real life never fought in a guerilla
war.
When he finally brushed up against one, he was routed.
Che excelled in one thing: mass murder of defenseless men. He was a
Stalinist to the core, a plodding bureaucrat and a calm, cold-blooded
-but
again, never in actual battle � killer. And there was an actual method
to
this murderous madness.
Recall that in 1940 Stalin�s commissars rounded up the Polish officer
corps,
herded them into the Katyn Forest and slaughtered them to a man. Stalin
didn�t want any Polish contras messing up his plans. These officers
would
have led them. So his men dug a huge mass grave and lined up the Polish
officers. The Russian pistol barrels went up against the back of the
neck:
POW! ... Thump. Fifteen thousand shots later the deed was done and the
dirt
replaced. Any contra problem was nipped in the bud.
Che followed suit in Cuba. As a communist flunkie in Guatemala he�d
seen the
Guatemalan officer corps rise up against the communist Arbenz
government in
'54. (And you pinko professors please stifle the noise about Arbenz as
harmless "social democrat� and "nationalist� victimized by the fiendish
United Fruit Co., OK? When ousted, Arbenz sought refuge in
Czechoslovakia,
not Sweden.)
Beloved Mass Murderer
Anyway, Che didn�t want a repeat in Cuba.. Upon entering Havana in
January
59 he started rounding up all Army officers. Then - FUEGO!! - his firing
squads got busy � real busy. By his own count, Che sent 2,500 men to
"the
wall.�
The "Cuban Katyn � I call this slaughter. The reds called these
executed men
"war criminals� and the Beltway press naturally parroted the charge.
Nothing
new here.
The New York Times� (Pulitzer-winning, no less) reporter Walter
Duranty had
parroted Stalin and Beria�s charges against the victims of the 1930s
show
trials, too. Later, they, along with Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy and Tip
O�Neill,
labeled Nicaragua�s contra�s "war criminals.� But today Nicaragua is
free
because of them.
Che�s true legacy is simply one of terror and murder. That dreaded
midnight
knock. Wives and daughters screaming in rage and panic as Che�s goons
drag
off their dads and husbands - that�s the real Che�s legacy.
Desperate crowds of weeping daughters and shrieking mothers clubbed
with
rifle butts outside La Cabana as Che�s firing squads murder their dads
and
sons inside - that�s the real Che legacy.
Thousands of heroes yelling "Viva Cuba Libre !� and "Viva Christo Rey
!�
before firing squads of murderous drunks whom they�d have stomped in
open
battle - that�s the real Che legacy.
Secret graves and crude boxes with the bullet-riddled corpses
delivered to
ashen-faced loved ones - that�s the real Che legacy.
And let�s not forget the craven, "Don�t shoot! I�m Che . I�m worth
more to
you live than dead!� (Then why didn�t he save his last bullet for
himself?)
Perhaps the defiant yells of the men he murdered actually affected Che
the
Lionhearted?
By 1960 he started ordering that his victims� mouths be taped shut.
Perhaps
there was a trace of human emotion in this icy dolt after all? Genuine
bravery and defiance unnerved him.
When the wheels of justice finally turned, Che was revealed as
unworthy to
carry his victims' slop buckets. He learned nothing from their bravery.
He
could only beg for his life. So yes, the craven request when cornered in
Bolivia is also the real Che legacy.