Mike,
Yeah, I'll do that. Amidst Cancun and everything I'd honestly
forgotten about that until Bill reminded me at the debate. But I am
curious to see what he has. I doubt it will change how I vote, but it
can't hurt. I am certainly all in favor of playing the candidates off
against each other to try to get them to take stronger pro-liberty
positions. I tried to do that last night with my question — I really
wanted to see them start tearing into each other's records — but there
were fewer revelations than I'd hoped for.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Thanks Starchild,
Are you going to take Bill up on his offer to show you the details on
cases that indicate that Hallinan does not perform in the way he would
like us to believe he does?Mike
From: Starchild [mailto:sfdreamer@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thu 9/18/2003 1:13 AM
To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations
Thanks, Mike. I really liked your responses on Hetch Hetchy
and the
nightlife issue. On some of the questions I felt Roger Schulke and
Tony
Ribera stole some of our thunder, but I think you gave a solid
performance. One recommendation I have is that you limit the
references
to "personal liberty" and "economic liberty" to when you're explaining
libertarian philosophy and have time to go into more detail. Those
terms don't have the meaning to the public that they do to us and
probably don't communicate much on their own.
In answer to your question, I feel as strongly as ever that
Hallinan
is the best choice for D.A.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
> Dear Starchild,
>
> You did a great job at the forum tonight. Thank you.
>
> I have a question. Now that you heard the various candidates for DA,
> has your opinion changed at all? Just curious.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Mike
>
> From: Starchild [mailto:sfdreamer@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 3:30 PM
> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations
>
>
>
> My opposition to recommending Fazio for D.A. is not
based on
> the fear
> of setting a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I am
not an
> ideological purist when it comes to recommending candidates
who aren't
> libertarian but seem to be better than their competitors. I
just don't
> think Fazio is better than Hallinan.
>
> Since many of us frankly admit that we will be voting
for one
> or
> another of the candidates anyway, the perceived negative of a
party
> recommendation doesn't have much to do with outcome, only
with our
> concern over sullying the good name of the LP. I believe we
adequately
> address this concern by limiting our backing of
non-libertarian
> candidates to a "recommendation" rather than a whole-hearted
> endorsement.
>
> I strongly suspect that if Hallinan had showed up,
he would
> have
> given us sufficient facts to confidently vote the other way.
Of course
> he bears the blame of not coming or getting in touch with us,
but even
> those who voted for Fazio apparently agree that this alone is
an
> insufficient reason for voting the way we did. Since Fazio
hasn't held
> office, his record is much less visible, making it easier for
him to
> pick and choose what he tells people unfamiliar with the
facts of the
> matter (e.g. us) in order to create a positive impression.
Someone
> wrote that Fazio has always been a trial lawyer. Actually he
is a
> long-time prosecutor who only recently switched to defense.
He did not
> say anything to us about switching teams out of
disillusionment with
> enforcing bad laws or putting people in the slammer; I
suspect he
> switched either for the prospect of earning more money or to
try to
> give his resume some balance in order to help him get elected.
>
> People who know way more about the candidates than we
do
> (media, law
> enforcement, etc.) seem to be in agreement that Hallinan is
more
> concerned with civil liberties than Fazio — and I submit
that's what
> we're looking for in a District Attorney. Although I can't
pull a
> bunch
> of facts and statistics out of my hat without going and
researching it
> (which seems like a marginal use of time after we've voted),
I have
> some confidence in my general impressions based on years of
reading
> the
> local papers. I think we're unwise to dismiss all the
conventional
> wisdom merely on the basis of a short personal appearance
where the
> candidate refused to make any promises.
>
> Yours in liberty,
> <<<
Starchild
> >>>
>
>
>
> > Of course you have our support, Mike. The vote was
official, and
> > there's no
> > such thing as an email or phone based recall of the
recommendation.
> > As far as
> > you and Fazio should be concerned, the recommendation vote
was
> > unanimous.
> > There's no such category as "recommended with
reservations", as that
> > would be
> > sort of like "a little pregnant". Go ahead with your
political
> > maneuvering,
> > because I think the possibility of increasing the influence
of both
> > your
> > campaign and the LPSF may be the only bright spot in this
entire
> mess.
> >
> > I'm really not so concerned about Fazio getting into the
D.A.'s
> > office. I may
> > still personally vote for him, in fact. What I am
concerned about
> is
> > setting
> > a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I think it's
a good
> > thing that
> > our party rarely lowers the bar to endorse a major party
candidate.
> I
> > think
> > Ron Paul and Maad really ought to be the only rare
exceptions to the
> > rule. We
> > aren't exchanging our support of them for a change in their
> policies.
> > If I
> > honestly believed that it was possible to barter support for
> > influence, I'd be
> > a Log Cabin Republican. But I just don't believe that such
> > arrangements ever
> > benefit the group compromising its principles, though they
always
> > benefit the
> > politician making the promises.
> >
> > At least I do feel better knowing that Fazio squeezing in
with a
> > recommendation from us was clearly a fluke due to Starchild
not
> being
> > present
> > for an endorsement vote (though he's usually late to
meetings, the
> > endorsements are always at the end, after he's arrived).
In fact,
> had
> > the one
> > abstention voted "no recommendation", things would have been
> > different, as
> > well.
> >
> > Don't worry, Mike. We'll all still be there tonight
cheering you
> on.
> > You'll
> > notice we kept this whole thing to the activists list,
because we
> > don't want
> > anyone outside to think we're at all wavering in our
support for
> you.
> > Just
> > don't you and Sarosh get used to political chess playing
such a big
> > factor in
> > future endorsement meetings. All us ideological hardasses
will be
> > mobilizing
> > for the next one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rob Power
> > http://www.robpower.com
> >
> > Mike Denny said:
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> I deeply regret the contention over this issue. And I
thank those
> who
> >> trusted
> >> that we in the LP will do whatever I can with a difficult
> situation.
> >> Life is
> >> little more than an experiment in my opinion. Insanity is
doing the
> >> same thing
> >> over and over expecting a different result. I realize we
are
> taking a
> >> chance
> >> here by trying something new. As an initiator of this, I'm
prepared
> >> to give it
> >> a shot on behalf of the LPSF. If I am wrong, I will take
the
> >> responsibility
> >> and eat crow.
> >>
> >> Those who object have now made their points very clear. I
respect
> >> what they
> >> have said and will excercize all the caution and effort
that I am
> >> capable of
> >> to make this turn out well. But I ask for your support. If
I have
> to
> >> fight my
> >> friends over this, it's not worth it to me. You can all
change your
> >> minds on
> >> this if you want and call Bill Faxio and tell him you
changed your
> >> minds.
> >> Believe me, it will be much easier for me. And right about
now,
> easy
> >> sounds
> >> real good.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> From: Leilani Wright
[mailto:plantagenetregina1157@yahoo.com]
> >> Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 9:40 AM
> >> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> >> Cc:
> >> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and
Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello friends in Liberty:
> >> I must say that Rob expressed perfectly my feelings
about the
> >> Hallinan/Fazio
> >> debacle.
> >> I stand firm behind my conviction that the "lesser of
two
> evils," is
> >> still
> >> evil. When the Libertarians, as Rob again expressed so
eloquently,
> >> "I'm just
> >> disappointed that we're playing the same political
> >> games that make the Democrats and Republicans
the fine
> parties
> >> they
> >> are. I guess I just need to learn that it's
not what
> you say
> >> or what
> >> you do, but rather who you know and who owes
you a
> favor."
> >> this is extremely un-fortunate.
> >> Leilani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rob....that's not what I was saying. I said
that the
> choice between
> >> Hallinan
> >> and Fazio was not an easy one for Libertarians because
they both
> had
> >> their
> >> baggage. I'm certainly not prioritizing illegals over
drugs and sex
> >> workers.
> >> I was simply defining the differences between the
candidates, not
> >> pretty in
> >> either case.
> >>
> >> I'm just out here working in the political
muck
> trying to make a
> >> difference.
> >> It's not pretty. But in my opinion, this is where the
battle is. I
> >> won't be
> >> here much longer. Those who think they can do a better job
can come
> >> on in
> >> and demonstrate what they can do. In the meantime, I will
be
> working
> >> on
> >> Fazio. The "no recommendation" crowd can work with
"nobody" or
> >> anybody else
> >> as they are free to do.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> From: Rob Power
[mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
> >> Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 12:49 AM
> >> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> >> Cc:
> >> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists]
Endorsements and
> Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> Okey doke. Glad we cleared that up.
As long
> as it's just
> >> those
> >> stinkin' illegals who are going to be
screwed,
> I guess it's
> >> not our
> >> problem. At least we'll have our sex
and
> drugs. And a favor
> >> to call
> >> in with the new D.A. to boot!
> >>
> >> This thread makes me very sad. Just
like
> Chris, my only
> >> internal
> >> debate was between Fazio and No
Recommendation,
> but I just
> >> assumed
> >> that the Fazio supporters were thinking
about
> the same things
> >> as I
> >> was ("he sounds libertarian, but is he
> sincere?"). I was
> >> horribly,
> >> horribly wrong about that and wish I
hadn't
> asked why peopole
> >> voted
> >> the way they did. I never expected to
see
> "illegals taking
> >> advantage
> >> of the welfare state" and "realpolitik"
as
> justification for
> >> Saturday's vote. I'm going to go drink
> something and hope I
> >> forget
> >> this debate. Mmm... Baileys on ice.
> Forgetting already....
> >>
> >>
> >> - -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mike Denny
[mailto:mike@drinksusa.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:08
PM
> >> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists]
Endorsements and
> Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >> OK Rob, let's just recommend Fazio to
punish
> the others for
> >> not
> >> bothering to show up at our meeting. I
can
> accept that. And
> >> it is
> >> standard operating proceedure in
politics. By
> the way, did we
> >> recommend Tony Hall? And we didn't
recommend
> Matt Gonzales if
> >> my
> >> memory serves me well. So let's see if
this
> makes a
> >> difference. Matt
> >> did say he agreed with me on the
campaign about
> the payroll
> >> tax. And
> >> we've been cordial despite our
differences.
> Tony's been open
> >> to me
> >> also and says he would have changed his
> position on the Small
> >> Business Commission if I had spoken
openly
> earlier, something
> >> I
> >> didn't do. So to have the opportunity
to engage
> in the
> >> discussion is
> >> often about as good as it gets in
politics.
> >>
> >> By the way, the real issue as I see it
between
> Fazio and
> >> Hallinan is
> >> that the former would crack down on
illegal
> immigrants whereas
> >> Hallinan would not. One candidate would
work to
> get rid of
> >> illegals
> >> taking advantage of the welfare state
whereas
> the other would
> >> support
> >> their right to do that in the name of
personal
> freedom....not
> >> much of
> >> a choice for a Libertarian if you asked
me. So
> not much of a
> >> clear
> >> ideological choice either way. I think
sex and
> drugs are
> >> pretty safe
> >> in SF for now under either Hallinan or
Fazio. I
> don't expect
> >> to see
> >> much change there.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> - -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rob Power
[mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
> >> Sent: Tue 9/16/2003 10:48 PM
> >> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> >> Cc:
> >> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists]
Endorsements and
> Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *** PGP Signature Status: bad
> >> *** Signer: Rob Power
<robpower@robpower.com>
> >> *** Signed: 9/16/2003 10:47:02 PM
> >> *** Verified: 9/16/2003 11:46:43 PM
> >> *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
> >>
> >> Both Tony Hall and Matt Gonzales have
"given us
> the time of
> >> day".
> >> Would the LPSF recommend that our
membership
> vote for them?
> >> If so,
> >> well, then I'm just out of touch. If
not, then
> why lower the
> >> bar for
> >> Fazio?
> >>
> >> Also, as I recall, there were
candidates in the
> previous
> >> election who
> >> could "talk the talk" when in front of
our
> libertarian
> >> audience, but
> >> we didn't believe they were sincere. We
> decided that it was
> >> better
> >> to make no recommendation. Again, why
are we
> giving Fazio the
> >> benefit of the doubt?
> >>
> >> If the main justification for
recommending
> Fazio was to
> >> punish the
> >> others for not bothering to show up at
our
> meeting, then
> >> let's just
> >> say that. There's nothing wrong with
honesty.
> But let's not
> >> set a
> >> precedent of being so desperate for
attention
> that we'll
> >> recommend
> >> anyone who bothers to show up and say
what we
> want to hear,
> >> regardless of that person's past job
> performance.
> >>
> >> Unlike Starchild, I'm not yet
"embarrassed"
> about the Fazio
> >> recommendation, but I fear that I'll be
> embarrassed about it
> >> a few
> >> months after he's elected. That would
be when
> we see an
> >> unprecedented increase in convictions
for drug
> and sex
> >> "crimes". For
> >> now, I'm just disappointed that we're
playing
> the same
> >> political
> >> games that make the Democrats and
Republicans
> the fine
> >> parties they
> >> are. I guess I just need to learn that
it's
> not what you say
> >> or what
> >> you do, but rather who you know and who
owes
> you a favor.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Christopher R. Maden
> [mailto:crism@maden.org]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36
PM
> >> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists]
Endorsements and
> Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *** PGP Signature Status: good
> >> *** Signer: Christopher R. Maden
> <crism@maden.org>
> >> *** Signed: 9/16/2003 9:35:38 PM
> >> *** Verified: 9/16/2003 10:07:32 PM
> >> *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
> >>
> >> >I did my best, Starchild. The
consensus of
> the group,
> >> however, was
> >> >that reducing violent crime was more
important
> than the
> >> libertarian
> >> >stance on victimless crimes.
> >> >
> >> >I was a disappointed by that vote, as
well.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't have put it that way. My
feeling is
> that (a)
> >> Fazio gave
> >> us the
> >> time of day, which is certainly not
sufficient,
> but is a
> >> start (our
> >> bylaws
> >> preclude us from recommending anyone who
> doesn't respond to
> >> the
> >> invitation
> >> unless we make a specific exception);
and (b)
> Fazio talks
> >> libertarian, but
> >> needs education on what constitutes a
harm and
> what
> >> constitutes an
> >> inconvenience.
> >>
> >> He is not an ideal candidate, but
Hallinan does
> not appear to
> >> walk
> >> the walk
> >> either, and his clumsy politicking
grates. I
> was only
> >> deciding,
> >> myself,
> >> between Fazio and no recommendation.
> >>
> >> ~Chris
> >> - --
> >> Conservative, n. A statesman who is
enamored of
> existing
> >> evils, as
> >> distinguished from the Liberal, who
wishes to
> replace them
> >> with
> >> others.
> >> ~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd:
<URL:
> >> http://crism.maden.org/
> >> <http://crism.maden.org/>
> >> >
> >> PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176
D6D4 5DFC
> AC52 F825
> >> AFEC 58DA
> >>
> >> *** END PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
> >>
> >>
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> >>
>
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