Feedback For LPSF

Discussion
1

Dear LPSFers,

Here is an exchange I had with Rachel Lagunoff, who has attended
some of our events. I think it may offer useful feedback for us.

It begins with me [Michael E.] inviting her to join the LPSF:

About six months ago you were reluctant to join the Libertarian Party
of San Francisco. I wonder if now, as a result of new information,
considering the issues, and getting to know some of us, you would be
interested in supporting us and becoming a member. It's only $25 and
it will help us get out the ideas of liberty. Many thanks.

I feel very comfortable supporting individual Libertarians, such as
Michael
Denny, who is very open-minded, respectful of others, and understands
the
principles the LP is based on, but I do not feel that the Libertarian
Party
in general represents my political ideas (and ideals) well. There are
also
some individual Libertarians who I am not comfortable associating
myself
with at all. Of course, this is true with any political party, which
is why
I've decided to declare myself an Independent.

You may use my name. To clarify a bit, the Libertarians I would feel
uncomfortable associating myself with are those who support violence
such
as the death penalty or war, those who scoff at environmental or
social
causes (save the seals, help the homeless, etc.), those who believe
leftists (garden variety, not hardcore communists) are somehow the
enemy.

2

Here's a good article about the male libertarian jerk syndrome, which may or may not be part of Rachel's issues. I haven't been to any LPSF event yet, so I can't say if LPSF suffers from it.

http://www.doingfreedom.com/gen/1102/want.html

/Lars

3

Hmm. Is this a criticism of the LPSF or the national LP? If she likes Mike
Denny, who in our group is too "conservative" for her taste?

During my campaign, I had quite a few people approach me and say something
like "I don't agree with Libertarianism, but you're not like most
Libertarians. You should consider becoming a Democrat." I most certainly AM
like most Libertarians, so I'm wondering who is doing such a good job of
ruining our image as an organization. Maybe Rachel can tell us where she
heard such bad things about us, and we can investigate that source of
misinformation.

I know that most of the people I met who had such a poor opinion of us had
gotten their information from mainstream (not extremist) Democrats and
Republicans. It's not the commies going after us for our economic freedom
stance, and it's not the fundamentalists going after us for our sexual rights
beliefs. It's the middle-of-the-roaders who hypocritically attack us for both
things.

Rob

4

After reading this exchange between Michael and
Rachel, I feel even more motivated to get my idea
going of meeting once a week, or once every other
week, to discuss Libertarian solutions to various
issues. Therefore, I will be at a coffee shop every
Wednesday at 7:00pm to discuss libertarian ideas and
solutions to issues to whomever shows up.

I think something like this would be a great way for
Libertarians, potential libertarians, and
non-libertarians to discuss politics and economics and
learn about libertarian solutions. I think an
opportunity to learn and listen to each other would
benefit someone such as Rachel who would hopefully be
pleasantly surprised to learn how practical and
logical libertarian solutions are to the environment,
homeless, etc. Also, the atmosphere to talk about
issues like this would be much different than at a
business meeting. For example, I never knew about
solutions to the environment until I did some serious
research, luckily ran across some libertarian
solutions, and saw how practical they were, and
finally broke away from the Sierra club and
Greenpeace.

Enough said. Starting this Wednesday, I will be at the
Royal Ground coffee shop on Geary and 17th avenue at
7:00pm. I will bring some brochures I collected at
previous meetings ranging from 'immigration' to the
'environment', and hope to take advantage of this
great opportunity to engage in some great conversatons
with whomever can show up. If no one shows up, at
least I'll have the opportunity to read some of these
brochures myself. I don't now everything, but I want
to be a better-informed libertarian so I can better
represent the party when I'm discussing politics with
people who know nothing about the libertarian party.
If anyone has any concerns about this idea of mine,
please reply back to this e-mail.

Dave Barker

--- "Dr. Michael R. Edelstein"
<dredelstein@...> wrote:

5

Hi Dave,

  The LPSF actually used to do something like this in the mid-'90s
called the "Argument Clinic." Resurrecting it or creating a similar event
sounds like a great idea, and I'd like to try to take part frequently. I do
have two concerns with the specifics you've laid out below:

(1) Meeting at 7pm on Wednesdays would result in a once-a-month conflict
with the Direct Action Forum, although you could avoid this simply enough
by cancelling the event on those nights and encouraging people to go to the
DAF instead.

(2) Not having a car, I'd prefer a more centrally located meeting place.
Getting out to our meetings at 16th Ave. & Geary is something of a hassle
when I'm not getting a ride with someone. Having events in several
different parts of the city is also a good idea -- ideally everyone in the
city would have an opportunity to attend at least one event located
somewhere convenient for them.

  Another suggestion would be to have a copy of the LP platform on
hand during these gatherings. Discussion might also be enhanced by having a
bit of structure, for example:

Topic: Immigration
7-730pm - Introductions/presentation on what the LP position is on
immigration: what the party platform says, how the position derives from
the non-aggression principle, what the social implications are, etc.
730-9pm - Discussion/questions/potential problems/libertarian
solutions/important facts & effective arguments

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

At 12:50 PM -0700 5/5/03, dave barker shared:

6

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I hadn't had a chance to reply to Dave's e-mail yet - Dave, I think this is
a great idea, and thanks for stepping up to make it happen.

(1) Meeting at 7pm on Wednesdays would result in a once-a-month conflict
with the Direct Action Forum, although you could avoid this simply enough
by cancelling the event on those nights and encouraging people to go to the
DAF instead.

I had a similar thought - I think this is actually a good thing. By making
Wednesday night "issue night" for those so inclined, DAF attendance might
actually benefit. True, people do have to remember to go somewhere else on
the third Wednesdays.

(2) Not having a car, I'd prefer a more centrally located meeting place.

Take the 22 to the 38. Or the N to the 28.

As for this and formal topic announcement:

I say, if Dave is willing to step up and make this happen, he can do it
however he wants. We need more active volunteers, and the easier it is,
the better.

(Not that suggestions aren't welcome, of course.)

Unfortunately, I have to go back to San Diego, and so will miss the next
couple Wednesdays. I will be camped out at RTP this Saturday, and I should
be at the next DAF.

~Chris
- --
Bring back Janet Reno! An Attorney General
who kills Texans is looking better every day.
Political gadfly and freelance nerd: <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ >
PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA

7

(1) Meeting at 7pm on Wednesdays would result in a once-a-month conflict
with the Direct Action Forum, although you could avoid this simply enough
by cancelling the event on those nights and encouraging people to go to the
DAF instead.

I had a similar thought - I think this is actually a good thing. By making
Wednesday night "issue night" for those so inclined, DAF attendance might
actually benefit. True, people do have to remember to go somewhere else on
the third Wednesdays.

  That shouldn't be a major problem if we minimize the "remembering"
people have to do with multiple announcements.

(2) Not having a car, I'd prefer a more centrally located meeting place.

Take the 22 to the 38. Or the N to the 28.

As for this and formal topic announcement:

I say, if Dave is willing to step up and make this happen, he can do it
however he wants. We need more active volunteers, and the easier it is,
the better.

(Not that suggestions aren't welcome, of course.)

  Suggestions are what I was offering, Chris. I also gave some
reasons for those suggestions (which you deleted from your response,
leaving only the preference I expressed based on personal convenience). I
am aware of how to get to the outer Sunset on Geary via MUNI. The fact that
you can get somewhere via MUNI does not make it a central location, or
change the fact that we already hold a monthly event nearby. Of course Dave
can do this how he wants, but I think the points I raised make sense, and
would benefit the group's efforts. I've changed both the time and location
of the DAF before in response to feedback from LPSF members.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

8

I'm looking forward to this Wednesday night's
discussion at the coffee shop. I appreciate everyone's
suggestions and comments who responded. As far as the
location goes, it's directly on Geary St., and as
Chris mentioned, that's the #38 bus. I'll be there at
7:00pm (Hopefully, I won't be having a conversation
with myself).

I was thinking about having it at different locations,
but the word "consistnecy" runs through my mind.
Shouldn't we have it at the same place so that we'll
always know where to go every Wednesday night when we
feel the urge to meet with others and discuss an
issue?

I'm glad these concerns are coming up because it means
people are interested in this happening. Looking
forward to hanging out and chatting with you all
tonight. It's at 17th and Geary; the Royal Ground
Coffee Shop.

Dave Barker