Thanks, Mike. I really liked your responses on Hetch Hetchy and the
nightlife issue. On some of the questions I felt Roger Schulke and Tony
Ribera stole some of our thunder, but I think you gave a solid
performance. One recommendation I have is that you limit the references
to "personal liberty" and "economic liberty" to when you're explaining
libertarian philosophy and have time to go into more detail. Those
terms don't have the meaning to the public that they do to us and
probably don't communicate much on their own.
In answer to your question, I feel as strongly as ever that Hallinan
is the best choice for D.A.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>
Dear Starchild,
You did a great job at the forum tonight. Thank you.
I have a question. Now that you heard the various candidates for DA,
has your opinion changed at all? Just curious.I look forward to hearing from you.
Mike
From: Starchild [mailto:sfdreamer@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 3:30 PM
To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations
My opposition to recommending Fazio for D.A. is not based on
the fear
of setting a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I am not an
ideological purist when it comes to recommending candidates who aren't
libertarian but seem to be better than their competitors. I just don't
think Fazio is better than Hallinan.
Since many of us frankly admit that we will be voting for one
or
another of the candidates anyway, the perceived negative of a party
recommendation doesn't have much to do with outcome, only with our
concern over sullying the good name of the LP. I believe we adequately
address this concern by limiting our backing of non-libertarian
candidates to a "recommendation" rather than a whole-hearted
endorsement.
I strongly suspect that if Hallinan had showed up, he would
have
given us sufficient facts to confidently vote the other way. Of course
he bears the blame of not coming or getting in touch with us, but even
those who voted for Fazio apparently agree that this alone is an
insufficient reason for voting the way we did. Since Fazio hasn't held
office, his record is much less visible, making it easier for him to
pick and choose what he tells people unfamiliar with the facts of the
matter (e.g. us) in order to create a positive impression. Someone
wrote that Fazio has always been a trial lawyer. Actually he is a
long-time prosecutor who only recently switched to defense. He did not
say anything to us about switching teams out of disillusionment with
enforcing bad laws or putting people in the slammer; I suspect he
switched either for the prospect of earning more money or to try to
give his resume some balance in order to help him get elected.
People who know way more about the candidates than we do
(media, law
enforcement, etc.) seem to be in agreement that Hallinan is more
concerned with civil liberties than Fazio — and I submit that's what
we're looking for in a District Attorney. Although I can't pull a
bunch
of facts and statistics out of my hat without going and researching it
(which seems like a marginal use of time after we've voted), I have
some confidence in my general impressions based on years of reading
the
local papers. I think we're unwise to dismiss all the conventional
wisdom merely on the basis of a short personal appearance where the
candidate refused to make any promises.
Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild
>>>
> Of course you have our support, Mike. The vote was official, and
> there's no
> such thing as an email or phone based recall of the recommendation.
> As far as
> you and Fazio should be concerned, the recommendation vote was
> unanimous.
> There's no such category as "recommended with reservations", as that
> would be
> sort of like "a little pregnant". Go ahead with your political
> maneuvering,
> because I think the possibility of increasing the influence of both
> your
> campaign and the LPSF may be the only bright spot in this entire
mess.
>
> I'm really not so concerned about Fazio getting into the D.A.'s
> office. I may
> still personally vote for him, in fact. What I am concerned about
is
> setting
> a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I think it's a good
> thing that
> our party rarely lowers the bar to endorse a major party candidate.
I
> think
> Ron Paul and Maad really ought to be the only rare exceptions to the
> rule. We
> aren't exchanging our support of them for a change in their
policies.
> If I
> honestly believed that it was possible to barter support for
> influence, I'd be
> a Log Cabin Republican. But I just don't believe that such
> arrangements ever
> benefit the group compromising its principles, though they always
> benefit the
> politician making the promises.
>
> At least I do feel better knowing that Fazio squeezing in with a
> recommendation from us was clearly a fluke due to Starchild not
being
> present
> for an endorsement vote (though he's usually late to meetings, the
> endorsements are always at the end, after he's arrived). In fact,
had
> the one
> abstention voted "no recommendation", things would have been
> different, as
> well.
>
> Don't worry, Mike. We'll all still be there tonight cheering you
on.
> You'll
> notice we kept this whole thing to the activists list, because we
> don't want
> anyone outside to think we're at all wavering in our support for
you.
> Just
> don't you and Sarosh get used to political chess playing such a big
> factor in
> future endorsement meetings. All us ideological hardasses will be
> mobilizing
> for the next one.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Power
> http://www.robpower.com
>
> Mike Denny said:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I deeply regret the contention over this issue. And I thank those
who
>> trusted
>> that we in the LP will do whatever I can with a difficult
situation.
>> Life is
>> little more than an experiment in my opinion. Insanity is doing the
>> same thing
>> over and over expecting a different result. I realize we are
taking a
>> chance
>> here by trying something new. As an initiator of this, I'm prepared
>> to give it
>> a shot on behalf of the LPSF. If I am wrong, I will take the
>> responsibility
>> and eat crow.
>>
>> Those who object have now made their points very clear. I respect
>> what they
>> have said and will excercize all the caution and effort that I am
>> capable of
>> to make this turn out well. But I ask for your support. If I have
to
>> fight my
>> friends over this, it's not worth it to me. You can all change your
>> minds on
>> this if you want and call Bill Faxio and tell him you changed your
>> minds.
>> Believe me, it will be much easier for me. And right about now,
easy
>> sounds
>> real good.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> From: Leilani Wright [mailto:plantagenetregina1157@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 9:40 AM
>> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations
>>
>>
>> Hello friends in Liberty:
>> I must say that Rob expressed perfectly my feelings about the
>> Hallinan/Fazio
>> debacle.
>> I stand firm behind my conviction that the "lesser of two
evils," is
>> still
>> evil. When the Libertarians, as Rob again expressed so eloquently,
>> "I'm just
>> disappointed that we're playing the same political
>> games that make the Democrats and Republicans the fine
parties
>> they
>> are. I guess I just need to learn that it's not what
you say
>> or what
>> you do, but rather who you know and who owes you a
favor."
>> this is extremely un-fortunate.
>> Leilani
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob....that's not what I was saying. I said that the
choice between
>> Hallinan
>> and Fazio was not an easy one for Libertarians because they both
had
>> their
>> baggage. I'm certainly not prioritizing illegals over drugs and sex
>> workers.
>> I was simply defining the differences between the candidates, not
>> pretty in
>> either case.
>>
>> I'm just out here working in the political muck
trying to make a
>> difference.
>> It's not pretty. But in my opinion, this is where the battle is. I
>> won't be
>> here much longer. Those who think they can do a better job can come
>> on in
>> and demonstrate what they can do. In the meantime, I will be
working
>> on
>> Fazio. The "no recommendation" crowd can work with "nobody" or
>> anybody else
>> as they are free to do.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> From: Rob Power [mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
>> Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 12:49 AM
>> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and
Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Okey doke. Glad we cleared that up. As long
as it's just
>> those
>> stinkin' illegals who are going to be screwed,
I guess it's
>> not our
>> problem. At least we'll have our sex and
drugs. And a favor
>> to call
>> in with the new D.A. to boot!
>>
>> This thread makes me very sad. Just like
Chris, my only
>> internal
>> debate was between Fazio and No Recommendation,
but I just
>> assumed
>> that the Fazio supporters were thinking about
the same things
>> as I
>> was ("he sounds libertarian, but is he
sincere?"). I was
>> horribly,
>> horribly wrong about that and wish I hadn't
asked why peopole
>> voted
>> the way they did. I never expected to see
"illegals taking
>> advantage
>> of the welfare state" and "realpolitik" as
justification for
>> Saturday's vote. I'm going to go drink
something and hope I
>> forget
>> this debate. Mmm... Baileys on ice.
Forgetting already....
>>
>>
>> - -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Denny [mailto:mike@drinksusa.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:08 PM
>> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and
Recommendations
>>
>>
>> OK Rob, let's just recommend Fazio to punish
the others for
>> not
>> bothering to show up at our meeting. I can
accept that. And
>> it is
>> standard operating proceedure in politics. By
the way, did we
>> recommend Tony Hall? And we didn't recommend
Matt Gonzales if
>> my
>> memory serves me well. So let's see if this
makes a
>> difference. Matt
>> did say he agreed with me on the campaign about
the payroll
>> tax. And
>> we've been cordial despite our differences.
Tony's been open
>> to me
>> also and says he would have changed his
position on the Small
>> Business Commission if I had spoken openly
earlier, something
>> I
>> didn't do. So to have the opportunity to engage
in the
>> discussion is
>> often about as good as it gets in politics.
>>
>> By the way, the real issue as I see it between
Fazio and
>> Hallinan is
>> that the former would crack down on illegal
immigrants whereas
>> Hallinan would not. One candidate would work to
get rid of
>> illegals
>> taking advantage of the welfare state whereas
the other would
>> support
>> their right to do that in the name of personal
freedom....not
>> much of
>> a choice for a Libertarian if you asked me. So
not much of a
>> clear
>> ideological choice either way. I think sex and
drugs are
>> pretty safe
>> in SF for now under either Hallinan or Fazio. I
don't expect
>> to see
>> much change there.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> - -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Power [mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
>> Sent: Tue 9/16/2003 10:48 PM
>> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and
Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> *** PGP Signature Status: bad
>> *** Signer: Rob Power <robpower@robpower.com>
>> *** Signed: 9/16/2003 10:47:02 PM
>> *** Verified: 9/16/2003 11:46:43 PM
>> *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
>>
>> Both Tony Hall and Matt Gonzales have "given us
the time of
>> day".
>> Would the LPSF recommend that our membership
vote for them?
>> If so,
>> well, then I'm just out of touch. If not, then
why lower the
>> bar for
>> Fazio?
>>
>> Also, as I recall, there were candidates in the
previous
>> election who
>> could "talk the talk" when in front of our
libertarian
>> audience, but
>> we didn't believe they were sincere. We
decided that it was
>> better
>> to make no recommendation. Again, why are we
giving Fazio the
>> benefit of the doubt?
>>
>> If the main justification for recommending
Fazio was to
>> punish the
>> others for not bothering to show up at our
meeting, then
>> let's just
>> say that. There's nothing wrong with honesty.
But let's not
>> set a
>> precedent of being so desperate for attention
that we'll
>> recommend
>> anyone who bothers to show up and say what we
want to hear,
>> regardless of that person's past job
performance.
>>
>> Unlike Starchild, I'm not yet "embarrassed"
about the Fazio
>> recommendation, but I fear that I'll be
embarrassed about it
>> a few
>> months after he's elected. That would be when
we see an
>> unprecedented increase in convictions for drug
and sex
>> "crimes". For
>> now, I'm just disappointed that we're playing
the same
>> political
>> games that make the Democrats and Republicans
the fine
>> parties they
>> are. I guess I just need to learn that it's
not what you say
>> or what
>> you do, but rather who you know and who owes
you a favor.
>>
>>
>>
>> - -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christopher R. Maden
[mailto:crism@maden.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 PM
>> To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and
Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** PGP Signature Status: good
>> *** Signer: Christopher R. Maden
<crism@maden.org>
>> *** Signed: 9/16/2003 9:35:38 PM
>> *** Verified: 9/16/2003 10:07:32 PM
>> *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
>>
>> >I did my best, Starchild. The consensus of
the group,
>> however, was
>> >that reducing violent crime was more important
than the
>> libertarian
>> >stance on victimless crimes.
>> >
>> >I was a disappointed by that vote, as well.
>>
>> I wouldn't have put it that way. My feeling is
that (a)
>> Fazio gave
>> us the
>> time of day, which is certainly not sufficient,
but is a
>> start (our
>> bylaws
>> preclude us from recommending anyone who
doesn't respond to
>> the
>> invitation
>> unless we make a specific exception); and (b)
Fazio talks
>> libertarian, but
>> needs education on what constitutes a harm and
what
>> constitutes an
>> inconvenience.
>>
>> He is not an ideal candidate, but Hallinan does
not appear to
>> walk
>> the walk
>> either, and his clumsy politicking grates. I
was only
>> deciding,
>> myself,
>> between Fazio and no recommendation.
>>
>> ~Chris
>> - --
>> Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of
existing
>> evils, as
>> distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to
replace them
>> with
>> others.
>> ~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL:
>> http://crism.maden.org/
>> <http://crism.maden.org/>
>> >
>> PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC
AC52 F825
>> AFEC 58DA
>>
>> *** END PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
>>
>>
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