Dues Confusion

Discussion
1

Steve Dekorte wrote:

I just received some physical mail that says I must pay to
continue to be a member of the Libertarian party. Is this any
payment required to vote at the meetings?

Oh, dear. We hoped it would be clear!

The gist of the change happening right now is that the national
Libertarian Party will not be collecting dues anymore, and that
the Libertarian Party of California has set its dues at $50, both
to take effect in the very near future.

If you are a lifetime member, then you continue to be a lifetime
member without paying additional dues.

Otherwise, if you have been paying yearly dues, then your voting
membership is still valid until your regular expiration date.
However, after September 30 renewal dues will be $50; the urgency
now is that the dues are still only $25 for renewals received by
the Libertarian Party of California by September 30.

For new members, dues for the first year will still be $25. The
higher rate only applies to renewals.

If you have never paid dues to at least one of the national
Libertarian Party, the Libertarian Party of California, or the
Libertarian Party of San Francisco, then you are not currently and
never have been voting member.

As of January 1, anyone who has signed the non-agression pledge
will be considered a member of the national Libertarian Party
without paying any dues. However, voting membership in the local
party depends on membership in the *state* party, not the national
party. As I write this I'm remembering this coming up at a
previous meeting, where you and I had a different idea; I've since
gone back and read all the bylaws to clarify the situation.

Cheers,
Justin

2

Thanks for the clarification. It's disappointing to see the one decision that I felt had some promise of bringing some life into the party be counteracted on the state and local levels. Since I don't see how any effect I might have though local voting could offset the larger effects of this and a pattern of other (IMO) poor decisions, I've decided not to reregister. I do wish you all the best of luck and would still like to attend the social events to keep in touch.

Cheers,
-- Steve

3

Steve,

  Do you mean not rejoining as a paid member, or not maintaining your voter registration as Libertarian? Either way, I'm sorry you feel this way. Maybe you won't have much effect as one person in changing the direction of the LP (about equally true for any group of similar size, I'd imagine), but it's more impact than you'll have if you're not involved. As far as being perfectly satisfied with the direction of the party, who is? Remember the cat-herding metaphor -- we're all individualists with our own ideas! Compared to giving up on politics or not being affiliated with any party, it takes a certain spirit of pragmatism and compromise to persevere in this one, full of anarchist extremism or not!

  If you are bent on leaving the Libertarian Party but still want to see people have more liberty, and have enough pragmatic and compromising spirit to align with a political party toward that goal, I recommend the Marijuana Party as the most pro-freedom alternative to the LP in the U.S. right now. Maybe you'd find them more amenable to the kind of program you want and could help keep them pointed in a libertarian direction.

  If on the other hand, you're open to reconsidering, stick around and I'll do my best to persuade you. 8)

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

P.S. - A good way to keep in touch if you're not going to be a member or come to the meetings would be by subscribing to the party newsletters.

4

The former. I still plan to vote for Libertarian candidates as long as the party's platform vector remains the closest to my own.

-- Steve

5

I first joined the LP back in the early '90s. At the time, in the days long before the UMP, I sent $500.00 to the San Francisco Libertarian Party (as it then called itself) for a Life Membership. Since then, I have paid National Dues off and on. I believe my most recent dues payment was $25 to National towards the end of December. Now, if I understand correctly, no dues are required to maintain my National membership (but I suppose a payment may be required to receive LP News?) However, the State party requires dues to maintain State/County membership. The minimum level for renewal is currently $25, but increases to $50 on September 30th.

When I go to the official site of the Libertarian Party of California

http://www.ca.lp.org/

and click on the link labeled "Join the LPC", which my browser tells me should go to

http://www.ca.lp.org/join.shtml

it actually goes (is redirected, I suppose) to the National Libertarian Party membership page

http://www.lp.org/members/join.shtml

where there appears to be no mention of the national zero dues policy. Is this the right place to renew my LPC membership? (and is it possible that if I did not renew, I would nevertheless, confusingly, continue to be a member at the National [$0 dues] and County [Life member] level, but not at the State level?)

David R. Jeffries

6

Dear David,

Thank you for your e-mail and your questions. I hope the answers
below will prove helpful:

1. LP National will indeed move to zero dues on October 1, 2005.
Anyone who signs the Non-Agression Pledge is a member of National.
Anyone can join National by signing the Pledge.

2. LP National is still deciding who will get LP News, but most
likely, LP News will be offered on a subscription basis.

3. Voting membership in LP California, and therefore in LP San
Francisco as one of its affiliates, is $25.00 until September 30,
2005 for existing members. LP CA suggests you **mail** your payment
to reach them by 9/30/05 to renew at the old rate. LP CA is working
hard to bring all the systems in line with the new rules; the pay-on-
line feature on the LPCA website apparently has not yet been updated.

4. Regarding your Life Membership, I quote from LP CA Chair Aaron
Starr's e-mail of 9/4/05 to LP County Officers: "If the National
Party considered you a Life Member on September 30, 2005, we will
consider you a Life Member of the California Party." If the
California Party considers you a Life Member, the LPSF will have to
do so also.

The following was not part of your questions, but I am offering it as
additional information for what it might be worth:

1. The apparent reason for the split between LP National and the
state parties was to avoid problems that might arise under the new
campaign finance laws.

2. The reason LP CA is charging dues is that it costs money to carry
out the delegates/members wishes (votes). Relying on voluntery
donations alone may not be fair, since conceivably someone voting at
a local meeting or convention sustained by donations may not have
contributed any funds at all. I say this scenario may not be fair
because I personally believe in putting your money where your heart
is.

Regards,

Marcy

I first joined the LP back in the early '90s. At the time, in the

days long before the UMP, I sent $500.00 to the San Francisco
Libertarian Party (as it then called itself) for a Life Membership.
Since then, I have paid National Dues off and on. I believe my most
recent dues payment was $25 to National towards the end of December.
Now, if I understand correctly, no dues are required to maintain my
National membership (but I suppose a payment may be required to
receive LP News?) However, the State party requires dues to maintain
State/County membership. The minimum level for renewal is currently
$25, but increases to $50 on September 30th.

When I go to the official site of the Libertarian Party of

California

http://www.ca.lp.org/

and click on the link labeled "Join the LPC", which my browser

tells me should go to

http://www.ca.lp.org/join.shtml

it actually goes (is redirected, I suppose) to the National

Libertarian Party membership page

http://www.lp.org/members/join.shtml

where there appears to be no mention of the national zero dues

policy. Is this the right place to renew my LPC membership? (and is
it possible that if I did not renew, I would nevertheless,
confusingly, continue to be a member at the National [$0 dues] and
County [Life member] level, but not at the State level?)

David R. Jeffries

From: Steve Dekorte <steve@d...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:14:23 -0700
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Dues Confusion/Disappointment

> Do you mean not rejoining as a paid member, or not maintaining

your

> voter registration as Libertarian?

The former. I still plan to vote for Libertarian candidates as long

as

7

Marcy

Thank you for your detailed and informative reply. I will mail my renewal check tomorrow.

David

8

In such situations, "fair", to me, means abiding by consensual agreements. Therefore I see nothing unfair in someone voting who has not contributed cash as long as the voluntary contributors understand the agreement.

I feel the true motivation for support of fees (as expressed by a number of local members) has to do with the theory that if dues are removed, party income will go down. I wonder how this theory would explain how the vast majority of political and non-profit organizations run (quite successfully) on voluntary contributions. I, for one, have far more confidence in the nature of people in general and Libertarians in particular. Does anyone else see the irony in a party that argues that the elimination of social programs will be more than made up for by charitable giving finds itself unable to see how the same logic applies to itself as a non-profit organization?

-- Steve

9

Marcy:
We should put a membership renewal form for the LPSF on our website. I had just renewed my dues with national in August, and so destroyed the form you sent thinking I didn't need it. After all the emails, I gather I do and I want to send a check to the LPSF rather than the LPC.
Francoise

10

Hi Francoise,

I hope our webmaster Bryce will take up your idea of putting an
application form on our website, especially since, as in the case of
LPCA, the "join" button takes you to LP National...not good.

Regarding your own membership,the database I received from LPCA on
8/5/05 says your membership expires, and I quote, "2006-08-16".

Since the LP National zero dues situation does not start until
October 1, 2005, it appears that the payment you sent in August was
accepted as a membership payment.

Regards,

Marcy

--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Francoise Fielding"
<Portia1948@m...> wrote:

Marcy:
We should put a membership renewal form for the LPSF on our

website. I had

just renewed my dues with national in August, and so destroyed the

form you

sent thinking I didn't need it. After all the emails, I gather I do

and I

want to send a check to the LPSF rather than the LPC.
Francoise

>From: "Amarcy D. Berry" <amarcyb@h...>
>Reply-To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Dues Confusion
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:48:07 -0000
>
>Dear David,
>
>Thank you for your e-mail and your questions. I hope the answers
>below will prove helpful:
>
>1. LP National will indeed move to zero dues on October 1, 2005.
>Anyone who signs the Non-Agression Pledge is a member of National.
>Anyone can join National by signing the Pledge.
>
>2. LP National is still deciding who will get LP News, but most
>likely, LP News will be offered on a subscription basis.
>
>3. Voting membership in LP California, and therefore in LP San
>Francisco as one of its affiliates, is $25.00 until September 30,
>2005 for existing members. LP CA suggests you **mail** your

payment

>to reach them by 9/30/05 to renew at the old rate. LP CA is

working

>hard to bring all the systems in line with the new rules; the pay-

on-

>line feature on the LPCA website apparently has not yet been

updated.

>
>4. Regarding your Life Membership, I quote from LP CA Chair Aaron
>Starr's e-mail of 9/4/05 to LP County Officers: "If the National
>Party considered you a Life Member on September 30, 2005, we will
>consider you a Life Member of the California Party." If the
>California Party considers you a Life Member, the LPSF will have to
>do so also.
>
>The following was not part of your questions, but I am offering it

as

>additional information for what it might be worth:
>
>1. The apparent reason for the split between LP National and the
>state parties was to avoid problems that might arise under the new
>campaign finance laws.
>
>2. The reason LP CA is charging dues is that it costs money to

carry

>out the delegates/members wishes (votes). Relying on voluntery
>donations alone may not be fair, since conceivably someone voting

at

>a local meeting or convention sustained by donations may not have
>contributed any funds at all. I say this scenario may not be fair
>because I personally believe in putting your money where your heart
>is.
>
>Regards,
>
>Marcy
>
> > I first joined the LP back in the early '90s. At the time, in

the

>days long before the UMP, I sent $500.00 to the San Francisco
>Libertarian Party (as it then called itself) for a Life Membership.
>Since then, I have paid National Dues off and on. I believe my most
>recent dues payment was $25 to National towards the end of

December.

>Now, if I understand correctly, no dues are required to maintain my
>National membership (but I suppose a payment may be required to
>receive LP News?) However, the State party requires dues to

maintain

>State/County membership. The minimum level for renewal is currently
>$25, but increases to $50 on September 30th.
> >
> > When I go to the official site of the Libertarian Party of
>California
> >
> > http://www.ca.lp.org/
> >
> > and click on the link labeled "Join the LPC", which my browser
>tells me should go to
> >
> > http://www.ca.lp.org/join.shtml
> >
> > it actually goes (is redirected, I suppose) to the National
>Libertarian Party membership page
> >
> > http://www.lp.org/members/join.shtml
> >
> > where there appears to be no mention of the national zero dues
>policy. Is this the right place to renew my LPC membership? (and is
>it possible that if I did not renew, I would nevertheless,
>confusingly, continue to be a member at the National [$0 dues] and
>County [Life member] level, but not at the State level?)
> >
> >
> > David R. Jeffries
> >
> > From: Steve Dekorte <steve@d...>
> > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:14:23 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Dues Confusion/Disappointment
> >
> >
> >
> > > Do you mean not rejoining as a paid member, or not maintaining
>your
> > > voter registration as Libertarian?
> >
> > The former. I still plan to vote for Libertarian candidates as

long

11

Steve,

      You wrote: "Does anyone else see the irony in a party that argues that the elimination of social programs will be more than made up for by charitable giving finds itself unable to see how the same logic applies to itself as a non-profit organization?"

Yes. I see the irony. And I understand your decision not to go along with the LPC's membership increase. I've always seen the LPC as more costly than it's worth. It's too bad that LPSF membership requires LPC membership. I renewed recently, so I'm not going to take advantage of the one-time $25 offer. Hopefully, LPC practices will have improved by the time my membership is about to expire.

I do hope you will keep coming to LPSF social hours and other events.

Kelly