Closure: The Obama Inauguration

Discussion
1

--- In libertarianrepublicans@yahoogroups.com, "ERIC"
<lincolnproducts@...> wrote:

This morning, Barak Obama was sworn in as 44th President. The forces
and friends of liberty stand at a crossroads. We may have
reservations about the incoming administration, yet no one is sorry
to see the outgoing one gone. Can libertarianism come back? That
depends on us. We need to focus on three points right now, or prepare
ourselves to let Obama decide the course of the future:

1. Get out of denial. We are in this situation because we let the
conservative/ libertarian movement get hijacked by statist neocons.
They are the ones responsible for this situation. There is nothing,
repeat nothing the democrats can do to make the situation the neocons
created worse. Libertarianism is about free minds and free markets
and the non-initiation of force. Anyone who says differently is not a
libertarian.

2. Ignore the democrats. Don't get bogged down beating up on them--
we know what they are. Focus our short-term goals on making certain
this doesn't happen again. That means shedding the movement of the
neocons and socialcons once and for all. Work to defeat incumbent
neocons like Palin and Schwarznegger. Reject aspiring ones like
Jingol and Arpaio.

3. Ignore the media machine. Turn our backs on neocon apologists in
the press pools and megachurches who've led us into defeat. Get
involved instead with rebuilding a genuine libertarian movement.

We're simply going to have to face facts: these neocon/socialcon
frauds have turned everything we believe in into an international
laughingstock. We have to realize that after 20 years of
Bush/Gingrich, the American people are NOT going to be won over by
platitudes.

We saw a nucleus of a counter-neocon movement in 2008 with Ron Paul
and Bob Barr. It can be done, but it won't happen overnight.

--- End forwarded message ---

2

Bob Barr..??? Puleeze

3

Bob Barr and Ron Paul helped elect Barak Obama keep up the good work!

4

I hope you aren't implying that Barr and Paul should have bowed out in favor of John McCain, or that the people who voted for them should have voted for the Republican establishment's candidate. That kind of logic is the #1 reason the Libertarian Party doesn't have more electoral success.
  
  But maybe you feel that elections work best when people cast their votes based on how they think other people are going to vote, instead of supporting the candidate they believe will do the best job? If only the media spent more time talking about who was up and down in the polls, instead of engaging in so much substantive political analysis of the positions of the various candidates on the issues, more people might have used the approach you seem to be recommending to determine how to vote. But alas, some of us were too well informed about what the candidates stood for.

Love & Liberty,
        ((( starchild )))

5

There are two ways to make things better - - - try to gradually improve them or let them get so bad no one can stand it.

6

I think the future is unpredictable, and there is always the possibility of things getting better rapidly, and we should remain open to this possibility and ready to seize opportunities that may arise, even though gradual improvement generally seems more likely. But I would have to be pretty cynical to have voted for McCain just to help things deteriorate to the point where no one can stand it.

Love & Liberty,
        ((( starchild )))

7

And let's not forget the fact that many, if not most, of the
political pundits and analysits in the American media are on the
payrolls of vested interests with a stake in the issue.

  I hope you aren't implying that Barr and Paul should have

bowed out

in favor of John McCain, or that the people who voted for them

should

have voted for the Republican establishment's candidate. That kind

of

logic is the #1 reason the Libertarian Party doesn't have more
electoral success.
  
  But maybe you feel that elections work best when people cast

their

votes based on how they think other people are going to vote,

instead

of supporting the candidate they believe will do the best job? If
only the media spent more time talking about who was up and down

in

the polls, instead of engaging in so much substantive political
analysis of the positions of the various candidates on the issues,
more people might have used the approach you seem to be

recommending

to determine how to vote. But alas, some of us were too well

informed

about what the candidates stood for.

Love & Liberty,
        ((( starchild )))

> Bob Barr and Ron Paul helped elect Barak Obama keep up the good

work!

>
>
> From: Glenn Rapp
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Fwd: Closure: The Obama Inauguration
>
> Bob Barr..??? Puleeze
>
>
> --- In libertarianrepublicans@yahoogroups.com, "ERIC"
> <lincolnproducts@> wrote:
>
> This morning, Barak Obama was sworn in as 44th President. The

forces

> and friends of liberty stand at a crossroads. We may have
> reservations about the incoming administration, yet no one is

sorry

> to see the outgoing one gone. Can libertarianism come back? That
> depends on us. We need to focus on three points right now, or

prepare

> ourselves to let Obama decide the course of the future:
>
> 1. Get out of denial. We are in this situation because we let the
> conservative/ libertarian movement get hijacked by statist

neocons.

> They are the ones responsible for this situation. There is

nothing,

> repeat nothing the democrats can do to make the situation the

neocons

> created worse. Libertarianism is about free minds and free markets
> and the non-initiation of force. Anyone who says differently is

not a

8

I'm sure you would have been happier with Palin; but even though
Barr was far from perfect, he at least had the personal integrity to
reject the neocon movement after he saw first-hand what they were
really all about. His case is far from unique: just look at David
Brock, Ariana Huffington, Colin Powell and others who, even if they
didn't become libertarians, saw the neocons for what they really are
and left the 'movement'.

Bob Barr..??? Puleeze

> --- In

libertarianrepublicans@yahoogroups.com<libertarianrepublicans%
40yahoogroups.com>,

> "ERIC"
> <lincolnproducts@> wrote:
>
> This morning, Barak Obama was sworn in as 44th President. The

forces

> and friends of liberty stand at a crossroads. We may have
> reservations about the incoming administration, yet no one is

sorry

> to see the outgoing one gone. Can libertarianism come back? That
> depends on us. We need to focus on three points right now, or

prepare

> ourselves to let Obama decide the course of the future:
>
> 1. Get out of denial. We are in this situation because we let the
> conservative/ libertarian movement get hijacked by statist

neocons.

> They are the ones responsible for this situation. There is

nothing,

> repeat nothing the democrats can do to make the situation the

neocons

> created worse. Libertarianism is about free minds and free markets
> and the non-initiation of force. Anyone who says differently is

not a

9

The problem with Parkhurst's logic is that 'letting things
deteriorate to the point where no one can stand it' can just as
easily rebound in the other direction. History's full of examples of
societies in a state of collapse where people grabbed any leader who
promised them a way out of their problems; and more often than not,
they ended up with something even worse.

  I think the future is unpredictable, and there is always the
possibility of things getting better rapidly, and we should remain
open to this possibility and ready to seize opportunities that may
arise, even though gradual improvement generally seems more

likely.

But I would have to be pretty cynical to have voted for McCain

just

to help things deteriorate to the point where no one can stand it.

Love & Liberty,
        ((( starchild )))

> There are two ways to make things better - - - try to gradually
> improve them or let them get so bad no one can stand it.
>
> From: Starchild
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Fwd: Closure: The Obama Inauguration
>
> I hope you aren't implying that Barr and Paul should have bowed

out

> in favor of John McCain, or that the people who voted for them

should

> have voted for the Republican establishment's candidate. That

kind of

> logic is the #1 reason the Libertarian Party doesn't have more
> electoral success.
>
> But maybe you feel that elections work best when people cast their
> votes based on how they think other people are going to vote,

instead

> of supporting the candidate they believe will do the best job? If
> only the media spent more time talking about who was up and down

in

> the polls, instead of engaging in so much substantive political
> analysis of the positions of the various candidates on the issues,
> more people might have used the approach you seem to be

recommending

> to determine how to vote. But alas, some of us were too well

informed

> about what the candidates stood for.
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
>
>
> > Bob Barr and Ron Paul helped elect Barak Obama keep up the

good

> work!
> >
> >
> > From: Glenn Rapp
> > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Fwd: Closure: The Obama Inauguration
> >
> > Bob Barr..??? Puleeze
> >
> >
> > --- In libertarianrepublicans@yahoogroups.com, "ERIC"
> > <lincolnproducts@> wrote:
> >
> > This morning, Barak Obama was sworn in as 44th President. The

forces

> > and friends of liberty stand at a crossroads. We may have
> > reservations about the incoming administration, yet no one is

sorry

> > to see the outgoing one gone. Can libertarianism come back? That
> > depends on us. We need to focus on three points right now, or
> prepare
> > ourselves to let Obama decide the course of the future:
> >
> > 1. Get out of denial. We are in this situation because we let

the

> > conservative/ libertarian movement get hijacked by statist

neocons.

> > They are the ones responsible for this situation. There is

nothing,

> > repeat nothing the democrats can do to make the situation the
> neocons
> > created worse. Libertarianism is about free minds and free

markets

> > and the non-initiation of force. Anyone who says differently

is

> not a
> > libertarian.
> >
> > 2. Ignore the democrats. Don't get bogged down beating up on

them--

> > we know what they are. Focus our short-term goals on making

certain

> > this doesn't happen again. That means shedding the movement of

the

> > neocons and socialcons once and for all. Work to defeat

incumbent

> > neocons like Palin and Schwarznegger. Reject aspiring ones like
> > Jingol and Arpaio.
> >
> > 3. Ignore the media machine. Turn our backs on neocon

apologists in

> > the press pools and megachurches who've led us into defeat. Get
> > involved instead with rebuilding a genuine libertarian movement.
> >
> > We're simply going to have to face facts: these neocon/socialcon
> > frauds have turned everything we believe in into an

international

> > laughingstock. We have to realize that after 20 years of
> > Bush/Gingrich, the American people are NOT going to be won over

by

> > platitudes.
> >
> > We saw a nucleus of a counter-neocon movement in 2008 with Ron

Paul