[ca-liberty] Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to read

It's not the man , it's the ideas. He says that repeatedly. Will gettting rid of the welfare state be good for the black community, getting rid of the income tax?, Ending inflation and eliminating the Federal Reserve? These measures may hurt the Black upper class and the Black middle calss that is ensconced in the beast's apparatus, at least in the short term
but isn't independence worth it?
Or you can go with Bush's compassionate conservatism. I remember when Bush came to Baltimore in 1999, and did the usual white politician Ghetto tour ala Humphry, Mondale etc. , looked around and stated, We need to do something about this. Well I don't need to tell you how much good 50 years of Government spending tens of billions "doing something" in Baltimore has done.

Ron Paul is the first candidate in my lifetime who will never go to Baltimore and suggest more government as the solution.

PS. I just got off the phone with Chrisiine Smith. She wants us to look at her revamped website. Libertarianfor president.com

Christine is from the social liberal side of the party. Ron Paul is from the social conservative side. I have always thought that this was one of the strengths of the party. That it could show the way for America to end the culture war and move forward together towards greater freedom. Unifying both sides in a common respect for liberty is our great strength. As such it requires each to tolerate certain deeply held beliefs of the other side. Christine will be a nice balance to Paul to show both faces of the liberty movement.

Hello, Phil:

Here's the problem.

Black Americans aren't going to elect a benevolent
racist who would "help them" through eliminating the
income tax, etc. if they believe that Ron Paul holds
racist views. As president, he's going to be making
thousands of decisions -- many of which may hinge on
race as a factor. If African Americans don't believe
they're going to get a fair shake from his "liberty
agenda" -- and, indeed, that he's willing to give the
police state the benefit of the doubt when they arrest
black Americans and charge them with crimes -- he's
not going to get black support. This is holding true
in Paul's abysmal numbers with the black community.

Similarly, the overwhelming majority of gay Americans
aren't going to elect or support a homophobe for
office, regardless of the general benefits that his
policies may offer them -- for similar reasons. When
it comes down to it, Ron Paul supports policies that
keep gay people as second class citizens.

Lo and behold, there's 20% of the population that Ron
Paul has already written off.

Now, let's add in women (many of whom believe their
uteruses are their own property, and not that of the
state -- i.e. diametrically opposed to Ron Paul's
position), Latino Americans (who chafe under Paul's
immigration strategy), and add them to the African
American and gay communities and suddenly Paul's
campaign is excluding 80%+ of California, and 60%+ of
the national population.

The reality is simple -- Ron Paul's campaign is a
campaign of mostly older white straight guys. It
doesn't have much support amongst the young, or the
various other minorities who put together represent a
supermajority. Nothing about the campaign represents
liberty for a majority of the people who are
targeted/excluded by Paul's agenda, and the excuses
for his behavior (i.e. "wouldn't people he doesn't
like still benefit from this?") are similar to the
typical Democratic and Republican lines that I spend
quite a bit of time criticizing.

That's why he's running as a Republican candidate, and
not a Libertarian one. Despite the spin-job phoney
poll being cited repeatedly, I firmly believe that a
majority of Libertarian Party supporters would not
support his campaign. He's unfairly trading on the
"libertarian" brand to advance a socially
conservative, fiscally conservative agenda that has
serious flaws and appeals to statism. To the degree
that he's attracting "new" people to "libertarianism,"
he is attracting people who want a wall on the Mexican
border, constitutional amendments to declare a woman's
uterus property of the state, and laws that
permanently marginalize gay American citizens.

If we're going to grow the "libertarian" base like
that, why don't we come out for single-payer
socialized medicine while we're at it?!?

Cheers,

Brian

--- Philip Berg <philip@...> wrote:

It's not the man , it's the ideas. He says that
repeatedly. Will gettting rid of the welfare state
be good for the black community, getting rid of the
income tax?, Ending inflation and eliminating the
Federal Reserve? These measures may hurt the Black
upper class and the Black middle calss that is
ensconced in the beast's apparatus, at least in the
short term
but isn't independence worth it?
Or you can go with Bush's compassionate
conservatism. I remember when Bush came to Baltimore
in 1999, and did the usual white politician Ghetto
tour ala Humphry, Mondale etc. , looked around and
stated, We need to do something about this. Well I
don't need to tell you how much good 50 years of
Government spending tens of billions "doing
something" in Baltimore has done.

Ron Paul is the first candidate in my lifetime who
will never go to Baltimore and suggest more
government as the solution.

PS. I just got off the phone with Chrisiine Smith.
She wants us to look at her revamped website.
Libertarianfor president.com

Christine is from the social liberal side of the
party. Ron Paul is from the social conservative
side. I have always thought that this was one of the
strengths of the party. That it could show the way
for America to end the culture war and move forward
together towards greater freedom. Unifying both
sides in a common respect for liberty is our great
strength. As such it requires each to tolerate
certain deeply held beliefs of the other side.
Christine will be a nice balance to Paul to show
both faces of the liberty movement.
  From: eric dupree
  To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:15 AM
  Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [ca-liberty]
Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to read

  Jim Brownfield,
  they are Paul's words PERIOD. It doesn't matter if
he wrote them and he can't say in didn't authorize
them. The mere fact the author is associated with
him...
  What he can do is show what he's done in regards
to other black issues or causes and bring forward
black people who can speak well of him so that a
single negative opinion won't be blown out of
proportion. To quote Janet Jackson "what have you
done for me lately".
  So far I haven't heard any black (Texasan?) say
anything about him and that can be the kiss of
death.
  LP's do well not appearing racial. Then something
like this comes up...litmus test? It's not just the
opinions you have, but also the people you have
around you.
  It's like Andrew Cohen of the Bayview video saga,
after he and I had lunch I determined he is not a
racist, he a humorist. His (in my opinion) best
friend (who happens to be black) sat in at the lunch
and as a cultural anthropolgist I rendered an
opinion to the community that's Andrew is alright.
  My point, had I known about the Paul newsletter I
would have met with him and reported back as I have
done since Starchild encouraged me to learn more
about the LP's who have treated me well.
  Lynette Shaw was kicked out of her home and raised
by black people. That impressed us in regards to the
LP's.
  I told everyone I felt Olivier was anti
imirgration not anti Mexican.
  So now I ask only because Paul has caused a racial
issue, 'what ELSE has he to say about us?'

    From: Starchild
    To: "Brian Miller"
    Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [ca-liberty]
Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to read
    Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:01:40 -0700

    Brian,

    It seems to me there is another possibility
besides Ron Paul not being concerned with the
material put out in his name, that being he realized
"well, it's out now, and while regrettable, I can't
do anything about it." Publicly apologizing for it,
renouncing it, etc., would merely have drawn more
attention to it, kind of as attempting to censor
objectionable art, films, etc., typically merely
results in getting them a wider audience than they
otherwise would have had. I do think he ought to
have put a note in the newsletter communicating his
disavowal of the piece to his readers, although
maybe he did that -- it's not fully clear what you
mean to me when you say he issued "no official
apology."

    I can also readily imagine a scenario where Ron
Paul gave the piece his blessing based on a general
understanding of the theme, without reading it
carefully enough to realize until later that it
crossed a line from true and valid observations
(their seemed to be a lot of racial animosity from
blacks in the L.A. riots, young black men commit a
disproportionate amount of street crime, black
"leaders" like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton
encourage racism, etc.) into unfair and
unsupportable racist generalizations ("...what
blacks have done to cities across America," "our
country is being destroyed by a group of actual and
potential terrorists -- and they can be identified
by the color of their skin," etc.) If Ron had given
the article the green light in general terms, he may
have felt it would be unfair for him to discipline
an author who honestly thought he was writing with
Ron Paul's approval, eve! n if Ron actually did not
end up agreeing with the final content.

    To the author's partial credit, he does at least
make clear toward the end of the article that he
does not believe all blacks are automatically to
blame based on their skin color ("about 5% of blacks
have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the
free market, individual liberty, and the end of
welfare and affirmative action.") But I think there
are still parts of the essay that do generalize
based on skin color and are racist. It's true that
people of many other ethnicities regularly say and
write similar things about persons of European
descent and are not held accountable, but that still
does not make it right. I'm glad Ron Paul has
disavowed the article, even if he did not display
enough public contrition to please you.

    Love & Liberty,
    <<< starchild >>>

      So let me get this straight.

      Suppose I pubilshed the "Brian R. Miller
Newsletter on
      Politics."

      The byline was written by me.

      The article in question contained a racist
rant.
      You condemn me, years later, for what I wrote
-- and I
      say "oh, I didn't write that, it was a ghost
writer."
      I further attack your integrity for "damaging
the
      freedom movement."

      Meanwhile:

      1) No official apology was ever issued for the
racist
      article. In fact, I never comment on it until
you
      confront me in my bid for office. Despite the
fact
      that the article was the *primary* article in
*my*
      newsletter.

      2) The columnist who wrote the article,
according the
      article I googled from your response text,
continued
      to write articles for Paul's newsletter for
months
      afterwards, if Paul's tepid renunciation of
other
      crazy racist rants as "ghostwritten" is to be
believed

=== message truncated ===

I wish you would have been to that rally in Mnt View.
I saw lots of young people, lots of young women, I am
sure many of them, like me are pro-gay rights and pro
choice. I do disagree with Paul's ideas on abortion,
gays, and immigration. But I won't let a few
disagreements with a candidate stop me from voting for
them. I am sure I disagreed with Harry Browne and
Badnarik but I voted for them. And if Paul gets no
nomination for pres (Republican, Libertarian, other
3rd party or indy) I will vote for the lesser of two
evil Libertarian candidate, as they will agree with me
most, but I am sure I will disagree with them,
especially if we nominate Kubby, Imperato, Root,
Phillies or Hollist.

-TJ
--- Brian Miller <hightechfella@...> wrote:

Hello, Phil:

Here's the problem.

Black Americans aren't going to elect a benevolent
racist who would "help them" through eliminating the
income tax, etc. if they believe that Ron Paul holds
racist views. As president, he's going to be making
thousands of decisions -- many of which may hinge on
race as a factor. If African Americans don't
believe
they're going to get a fair shake from his "liberty
agenda" -- and, indeed, that he's willing to give
the
police state the benefit of the doubt when they
arrest
black Americans and charge them with crimes -- he's
not going to get black support. This is holding
true
in Paul's abysmal numbers with the black community.

Similarly, the overwhelming majority of gay
Americans
aren't going to elect or support a homophobe for
office, regardless of the general benefits that his
policies may offer them -- for similar reasons.
When
it comes down to it, Ron Paul supports policies that
keep gay people as second class citizens.

Lo and behold, there's 20% of the population that
Ron
Paul has already written off.

Now, let's add in women (many of whom believe their
uteruses are their own property, and not that of the
state -- i.e. diametrically opposed to Ron Paul's
position), Latino Americans (who chafe under Paul's
immigration strategy), and add them to the African
American and gay communities and suddenly Paul's
campaign is excluding 80%+ of California, and 60%+
of
the national population.

The reality is simple -- Ron Paul's campaign is a
campaign of mostly older white straight guys. It
doesn't have much support amongst the young, or the
various other minorities who put together represent
a
supermajority. Nothing about the campaign
represents
liberty for a majority of the people who are
targeted/excluded by Paul's agenda, and the excuses
for his behavior (i.e. "wouldn't people he doesn't
like still benefit from this?") are similar to the
typical Democratic and Republican lines that I spend
quite a bit of time criticizing.

That's why he's running as a Republican candidate,
and
not a Libertarian one. Despite the spin-job phoney
poll being cited repeatedly, I firmly believe that a
majority of Libertarian Party supporters would not
support his campaign. He's unfairly trading on the
"libertarian" brand to advance a socially
conservative, fiscally conservative agenda that has
serious flaws and appeals to statism. To the degree
that he's attracting "new" people to
"libertarianism,"
he is attracting people who want a wall on the
Mexican
border, constitutional amendments to declare a
woman's
uterus property of the state, and laws that
permanently marginalize gay American citizens.

If we're going to grow the "libertarian" base like
that, why don't we come out for single-payer
socialized medicine while we're at it?!?

Cheers,

Brian

--- Philip Berg <philip@...> wrote:

> It's not the man , it's the ideas. He says that
> repeatedly. Will gettting rid of the welfare state
> be good for the black community, getting rid of
the
> income tax?, Ending inflation and eliminating the
> Federal Reserve? These measures may hurt the Black
> upper class and the Black middle calss that is
> ensconced in the beast's apparatus, at least in
the
> short term
> but isn't independence worth it?
> Or you can go with Bush's compassionate
> conservatism. I remember when Bush came to
Baltimore
> in 1999, and did the usual white politician Ghetto
> tour ala Humphry, Mondale etc. , looked around and
> stated, We need to do something about this. Well I
> don't need to tell you how much good 50 years of
> Government spending tens of billions "doing
> something" in Baltimore has done.
>
> Ron Paul is the first candidate in my lifetime who
> will never go to Baltimore and suggest more
> government as the solution.
>
> PS. I just got off the phone with Chrisiine Smith.
> She wants us to look at her revamped website.
> Libertarianfor president.com
>
> Christine is from the social liberal side of the
> party. Ron Paul is from the social conservative
> side. I have always thought that this was one of
the
> strengths of the party. That it could show the way
> for America to end the culture war and move
forward
> together towards greater freedom. Unifying both
> sides in a common respect for liberty is our great
> strength. As such it requires each to tolerate
> certain deeply held beliefs of the other side.
> Christine will be a nice balance to Paul to show
> both faces of the liberty movement.
> From: eric dupree
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [ca-liberty]
> Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to read
>
>
>
> Jim Brownfield,
> they are Paul's words PERIOD. It doesn't matter
if
> he wrote them and he can't say in didn't authorize
> them. The mere fact the author is associated with
> him...
> What he can do is show what he's done in regards
> to other black issues or causes and bring forward
> black people who can speak well of him so that a
> single negative opinion won't be blown out of
> proportion. To quote Janet Jackson "what have you
> done for me lately".
> So far I haven't heard any black (Texasan?) say
> anything about him and that can be the kiss of
> death.
> LP's do well not appearing racial. Then
something
> like this comes up...litmus test? It's not just
the
> opinions you have, but also the people you have
> around you.
> It's like Andrew Cohen of the Bayview video
saga,
> after he and I had lunch I determined he is not a
> racist, he a humorist. His (in my opinion) best
> friend (who happens to be black) sat in at the
lunch
> and as a cultural anthropolgist I rendered an
> opinion to the community that's Andrew is alright.
> My point, had I known about the Paul newsletter
I
> would have met with him and reported back as I
have
> done since Starchild encouraged me to learn more
> about the LP's who have treated me well.
> Lynette Shaw was kicked out of her home and
raised
> by black people. That impressed us in regards to
the
> LP's.
> I told everyone I felt Olivier was anti
> imirgration not anti Mexican.
> So now I ask only because Paul has caused a
racial
> issue, 'what ELSE has he to say about us?'
>
>
>
> From: Starchild
> To: "Brian Miller"
> Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [ca-liberty]
> Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to read
> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:01:40 -0700
>
>
> Brian,
>
>
>
> It seems to me there is another possibility
> besides Ron Paul not being concerned with the
> material put out in his name, that being he
realized

=== message truncated ===

You won't let a "few disagreements" stop you from
supporting a statist agenda. I happen to believe that
there are certain things that are obnoxious and
shouldn't be supported in any circumstances --
including racism and homophobia.

You think that Libertarianism that appeals to a narrow
band of people is good for our future. I think an
inclusive Libertarianism that doesn't marginalize gay
people, women and minorities is the future.

Let's compare notes after the election and see who is
right. It's obvious you're going to do your thing and
I'm going to do mine, although again, I am concerned
that leaders in the Libertarian Party is promoting a
Republican candidacy -- and intend to address this
concern at the convention in Sacramento next year.

Cheers,

Brian

--- Tim Campbell <profreedomradical@...> wrote:

I wish you would have been to that rally in Mnt
View.
I saw lots of young people, lots of young women, I
am
sure many of them, like me are pro-gay rights and
pro
choice. I do disagree with Paul's ideas on abortion,
gays, and immigration. But I won't let a few
disagreements with a candidate stop me from voting
for
them. I am sure I disagreed with Harry Browne and
Badnarik but I voted for them. And if Paul gets no
nomination for pres (Republican, Libertarian, other
3rd party or indy) I will vote for the lesser of two
evil Libertarian candidate, as they will agree with
me
most, but I am sure I will disagree with them,
especially if we nominate Kubby, Imperato, Root,
Phillies or Hollist.

-TJ
--- Brian Miller <hightechfella@...> wrote:

> Hello, Phil:
>
> Here's the problem.
>
> Black Americans aren't going to elect a benevolent
> racist who would "help them" through eliminating
the
> income tax, etc. if they believe that Ron Paul
holds
> racist views. As president, he's going to be
making
> thousands of decisions -- many of which may hinge
on
> race as a factor. If African Americans don't
> believe
> they're going to get a fair shake from his
"liberty
> agenda" -- and, indeed, that he's willing to give
> the
> police state the benefit of the doubt when they
> arrest
> black Americans and charge them with crimes --
he's
> not going to get black support. This is holding
> true
> in Paul's abysmal numbers with the black
community.
>
> Similarly, the overwhelming majority of gay
> Americans
> aren't going to elect or support a homophobe for
> office, regardless of the general benefits that
his
> policies may offer them -- for similar reasons.
> When
> it comes down to it, Ron Paul supports policies
that
> keep gay people as second class citizens.
>
> Lo and behold, there's 20% of the population that
> Ron
> Paul has already written off.
>
> Now, let's add in women (many of whom believe
their
> uteruses are their own property, and not that of
the
> state -- i.e. diametrically opposed to Ron Paul's
> position), Latino Americans (who chafe under
Paul's
> immigration strategy), and add them to the African
> American and gay communities and suddenly Paul's
> campaign is excluding 80%+ of California, and 60%+
> of
> the national population.
>
> The reality is simple -- Ron Paul's campaign is a
> campaign of mostly older white straight guys. It
> doesn't have much support amongst the young, or
the
> various other minorities who put together
represent
> a
> supermajority. Nothing about the campaign
> represents
> liberty for a majority of the people who are
> targeted/excluded by Paul's agenda, and the
excuses
> for his behavior (i.e. "wouldn't people he doesn't
> like still benefit from this?") are similar to the
> typical Democratic and Republican lines that I
spend
> quite a bit of time criticizing.
>
> That's why he's running as a Republican candidate,
> and
> not a Libertarian one. Despite the spin-job
phoney
> poll being cited repeatedly, I firmly believe that
a
> majority of Libertarian Party supporters would not
> support his campaign. He's unfairly trading on
the
> "libertarian" brand to advance a socially
> conservative, fiscally conservative agenda that
has
> serious flaws and appeals to statism. To the
degree
> that he's attracting "new" people to
> "libertarianism,"
> he is attracting people who want a wall on the
> Mexican
> border, constitutional amendments to declare a
> woman's
> uterus property of the state, and laws that
> permanently marginalize gay American citizens.
>
> If we're going to grow the "libertarian" base like
> that, why don't we come out for single-payer
> socialized medicine while we're at it?!?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> --- Philip Berg <philip@...> wrote:
>
> > It's not the man , it's the ideas. He says that
> > repeatedly. Will gettting rid of the welfare
state
> > be good for the black community, getting rid of
> the
> > income tax?, Ending inflation and eliminating
the
> > Federal Reserve? These measures may hurt the
Black
> > upper class and the Black middle calss that is
> > ensconced in the beast's apparatus, at least in
> the
> > short term
> > but isn't independence worth it?
> > Or you can go with Bush's compassionate
> > conservatism. I remember when Bush came to
> Baltimore
> > in 1999, and did the usual white politician
Ghetto
> > tour ala Humphry, Mondale etc. , looked around
and
> > stated, We need to do something about this. Well
I
> > don't need to tell you how much good 50 years of
> > Government spending tens of billions "doing
> > something" in Baltimore has done.
> >
> > Ron Paul is the first candidate in my lifetime
who
> > will never go to Baltimore and suggest more
> > government as the solution.
> >
> > PS. I just got off the phone with Chrisiine
Smith.
> > She wants us to look at her revamped website.
> > Libertarianfor president.com
> >
> > Christine is from the social liberal side of the
> > party. Ron Paul is from the social conservative
> > side. I have always thought that this was one of
> the
> > strengths of the party. That it could show the
way
> > for America to end the culture war and move
> forward
> > together towards greater freedom. Unifying both
> > sides in a common respect for liberty is our
great
> > strength. As such it requires each to tolerate
> > certain deeply held beliefs of the other side.
> > Christine will be a nice balance to Paul to show
> > both faces of the liberty movement.
> > From: eric dupree
> > To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [ca-liberty]
> > Something for all the Ron Paul supporters to
read
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Brownfield,
> > they are Paul's words PERIOD. It doesn't
matter
> if
> > he wrote them and he can't say in didn't
authorize
> > them. The mere fact the author is associated
with
> > him...

=== message truncated ===

TJ,

  I second your observations about the Mountain View rally. I can't say I saw large numbers of visibly non-caucasian folks at the event, but there were lots of women and younger people. Again I'm not sure where Brian is getting his data when he says "Ron Paul's campaign is a campaign of mostly older white straight guys," but I've heard that his campaign *is* attracting a lot of young people, via his disproportionate visibility online. He's reportedly second among presidential candidates in "friend" links on MySpace (after Barack Obama), and from what I've heard, that site is overwhelmingly used by young people.

    <<< starchild >>>

Brian,

  In another recent message, which I cannot find now and may have deleted, you mentioned a similar concern, that LP members helping a Republican candidate was taking away from their helping LP candidates or building the LP.

  In a way I wish this *was* true locally, because that would mean that we were normally spending more energy supporting Libertarian candidates or activism! Unfortunately, I don't see a great deal of activism going on with the LPSF. Are you out there promoting any Libertarian candidates? Are you out there doing any street activism on behalf of the LP? Are you involved in local politics?

  I recently sent a message asking for people willing to help me go around to neighborhood businesses and ask them to display our new posters, and no one responded. I've got what I think is a pretty good idea for building an organization to counter the NIMBYism in this town, but hardly anyone has showed any interest in meeting and developing it. (The new member who came to our meeting last month was interested, btw -- if anyone has her contact info, please send it to me; if I wrote it down, I can't find it.) I regularly post stuff on this list about political meetings, hearings, shows, and other opportunities for activism happening in our community. I often go out and represent my Libertarian credentials at many of these events, as I did at the Americans for Safe Access "town hall meeting" last night, where three government officials came and spoke to a lively group of 50 people or so. But I rarely see other Libertarians there.

  One reason I'm relatively excited about and engaged in the Ron Paul campaign is because I see that there *are* other people actively involved in it who want more freedom, and many of them are excited and engaged. It gets lonely doing activism by yourself, and if you aren't careful it can lead to burnout.

  If you want to do some Libertarian activism rather than arguing about Ron Paul on the Internet, I invite you to give me a call and let's go out there and do it!

Love & Liberty,
          <<< starchild >>>
           (415) 621-7932

Starchild:

Watch this space.

Incidentally, there will be some activism coming up in early to mid August requiring Libertarian participation. It will be true outreach and I'll post more on the relevant lists when things are finalized.

Cheers,

Brian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote: Brian,

In another recent message, which I cannot find now and may have deleted, you mentioned a similar concern, that LP members helping a Republican candidate was taking away from their helping LP candidates or building the LP.

In a way I wish this *was* true locally, because that would mean that we were normally spending more energy supporting Libertarian candidates or activism! Unfortunately, I don't see a great deal of activism going on with the LPSF. Are you out there promoting any Libertarian candidates? Are you out there doing any street activism on behalf of the LP? Are you involved in local politics?

I recently sent a message asking for people willing to help me go around to neighborhood businesses and ask them to display our new posters, and no one responded. I've got what I think is a pretty good idea for building an organization to counter the NIMBYism in this town, but hardly anyone has showed any interest in meeting and developing it. (The new member who came to our meeting last month was interested, btw -- if anyone has her contact info, please send it to me; if I wrote it down, I can't find it.) I regularly post stuff on this list about political meetings, hearings, shows, and other opportunities for activism happening in our community. I often go out and represent my Libertarian credentials at many of these events, as I did at the Americans for Safe Access "town hall meeting" last night, where three government officials came and spoke to a lively group of 50 people or so. But I rarely see other Libertarians there.

One reason I'm relatively excited about and engaged in the Ron Paul campaign is because I see that there *are* other people actively involved in it who want more freedom, and many of them are excited and engaged. It gets lonely doing activism by yourself, and if you aren't careful it can lead to burnout.

If you want to do some Libertarian activism rather than arguing about Ron Paul on the Internet, I invite you to give me a call and let's go out there and do it!

Love & Liberty,
     <<< starchild >>>
      (415) 621-7932

You won't let a "few disagreements" stop you from
supporting a statist agenda. I happen to believe that
there are certain things that are obnoxious and
shouldn't be supported in any circumstances --
including racism and homophobia.

You think that Libertarianism that appeals to a narrow
band of people is good for our future. I think an
inclusive Libertarianism that doesn't marginalize gay
people, women and minorities is the future.

Let's compare notes after the election and see who is
right. It's obvious you're going to do your thing and
I'm going to do mine, although again, I am concerned
that leaders in the Libertarian Party is promoting a
Republican candidacy -- and intend to address this
concern at the convention in Sacramento next year.

Cheers,

Brian

--- Tim Campbell <profreedomradical@...> wrote:

When I joined this list about a week ago I volunteered
to help with some activities around SF, so please keep
the group informed of goings on. I have already told
Starchild I would help put Ron Paul signs around or LP
candidate signs around or collect signatures in SF.

-TJ
--- Brian Miller <hightechfella@...> wrote:

Starchild:

Watch this space.

Incidentally, there will be some activism coming up
in early to mid August requiring Libertarian
participation. It will be true outreach and I'll
post more on the relevant lists when things are
finalized.

Cheers,

Brian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
                       Brian,

In another recent message, which I cannot find now
and may have deleted, you mentioned a similar
concern, that LP members helping a Republican
candidate was taking away from their helping LP
candidates or building the LP.

In a way I wish this *was* true locally, because
that would mean that we were normally spending more
energy supporting Libertarian candidates or
activism! Unfortunately, I don't see a great deal
of activism going on with the LPSF. Are you out
there promoting any Libertarian candidates? Are you
out there doing any street activism on behalf of the
LP? Are you involved in local politics?

I recently sent a message asking for people willing
to help me go around to neighborhood businesses and
ask them to display our new posters, and no one
responded. I've got what I think is a pretty good
idea for building an organization to counter the
NIMBYism in this town, but hardly anyone has showed
any interest in meeting and developing it. (The new
member who came to our meeting last month was
interested, btw -- if anyone has her contact info,
please send it to me; if I wrote it down, I can't
find it.) I regularly post stuff on this list about
political meetings, hearings, shows, and other
opportunities for activism happening in our
community. I often go out and represent my
Libertarian credentials at many of these events, as
I did at the Americans for Safe Access "town hall
meeting" last night, where three government
officials came and spoke to a lively group of 50
people or so. But I rarely see other Libertarians
there.

One reason I'm relatively excited about and engaged
in the Ron Paul campaign is because I see that there
*are* other people actively involved in it who want
more freedom, and many of them are excited and
engaged. It gets lonely doing activism by yourself,
and if you aren't careful it can lead to burnout.

If you want to do some Libertarian activism rather
than arguing about Ron Paul on the Internet, I
invite you to give me a call and let's go out there
and do it!

Love & Liberty,
     <<< starchild >>>
      (415) 621-7932

You won't let a "few disagreements" stop you from
supporting a statist agenda. I happen to believe
that
there are certain things that are obnoxious and
shouldn't be supported in any circumstances --
including racism and homophobia.

You think that Libertarianism that appeals to a
narrow
band of people is good for our future. I think an
inclusive Libertarianism that doesn't marginalize
gay
people, women and minorities is the future.

Let's compare notes after the election and see who
is
right. It's obvious you're going to do your thing
and
I'm going to do mine, although again, I am concerned
that leaders in the Libertarian Party is promoting a
Republican candidacy -- and intend to address this
concern at the convention in Sacramento next year.

Cheers,

Brian

--- Tim Campbell <profreedomradical@...>
wrote:

> I wish you would have been to that rally in Mnt
> View.
> I saw lots of young people, lots of young women, I
> am
> sure many of them, like me are pro-gay rights and
> pro
> choice. I do disagree with Paul's ideas on
abortion,
> gays, and immigration. But I won't let a few
> disagreements with a candidate stop me from voting
> for
> them. I am sure I disagreed with Harry Browne and
> Badnarik but I voted for them. And if Paul gets no
> nomination for pres (Republican, Libertarian,
other
> 3rd party or indy) I will vote for the lesser of
two
> evil Libertarian candidate, as they will agree
with
> me
> most, but I am sure I will disagree with them,
> especially if we nominate Kubby, Imperato, Root,
> Phillies or Hollist.
>
> -TJ
> --- Brian Miller <hightechfella@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello, Phil:
> >
> > Here's the problem.
> >
> > Black Americans aren't going to elect a
benevolent
> > racist who would "help them" through eliminating
> the
> > income tax, etc. if they believe that Ron Paul
> holds
> > racist views. As president, he's going to be
> making
> > thousands of decisions -- many of which may
hinge
> on
> > race as a factor. If African Americans don't
> > believe
> > they're going to get a fair shake from his
> "liberty
> > agenda" -- and, indeed, that he's willing to
give
> > the
> > police state the benefit of the doubt when they
> > arrest
> > black Americans and charge them with crimes --
> he's
> > not going to get black support. This is holding
> > true
> > in Paul's abysmal numbers with the black
> community.
> >
> > Similarly, the overwhelming majority of gay
> > Americans
> > aren't going to elect or support a homophobe for
> > office, regardless of the general benefits that
> his
> > policies may offer them -- for similar reasons.
> > When
> > it comes down to it, Ron Paul supports policies
> that
> > keep gay people as second class citizens.
> >
> > Lo and behold, there's 20% of the population
that
> > Ron
> > Paul has already written off.
> >
> > Now, let's add in women (many of whom believe
> their
> > uteruses are their own property, and not that of
> the
> > state -- i.e. diametrically opposed to Ron
Paul's
> > position), Latino Americans (who chafe under
> Paul's
> > immigration strategy), and add them to the
African
> > American and gay communities and suddenly Paul's
> > campaign is excluding 80%+ of California, and
60%+
> > of
> > the national population.
> >
> > The reality is simple -- Ron Paul's campaign is
a

=== message truncated ===

What convention in Sacramento?

Terry Floyd