When homeless people become part of the conversation, instead of just being talked *about* by others, it kind of puts the whole subject in a different light.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
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Dear Starchild,
Thank you for calling attention to real life challenges. So, here is mine. Most of my clients are pretty good financially, and I make my living thanks to them. However, among my clients are a few who think they are paying, but do not know I charge them a lot less than the chagrin they give me. They are the borderline homeless who are at least making an effort, they are the "non-profits" who...well no comment there. By helping these folks out, without their even knowing it, and without asking you and others to suffer the consequences of their less than perfect behavior, I am helping real time, real world. So, I am wondering if fighting the sit/lie proposal, is indeed real world.
Just a thought.
Marcy
Hi Marcy,
I appreciate your efforts to assist the "borderline homeless" and worthy non-profits (I hope you aren't giving any special breaks to those which are more part of the problem than part of the solution!). Are you embarrassed to tell these folks you're giving them a discount, or do you have some other reason for not letting them know? Or are you saying they are not being charged less but are simply so much trouble to deal with that you'd like to charge them more?
I know what you mean on that; I've had similar clients myself. Some people are just more difficult or hard to get along with than others. When I get frustrated with them, I try to remember that I'm often a difficult customer myself in other situations -- my one-word name is hard for some people to fit into their standard forms and procedures, I tend to place complicated special orders at restaurants, I bug companies about their business practices such as using Social Security numbers, automatically recording people's phone calls, making robo-calls, bouncing people around in endless voicemail menus, requiring government-issued ID, etc. While I don't think I'm being unreasonable, I'm sure some of them probably feel I am.
I don't understand your question about whether "fighting the sit/lie proposal is indeed real world". As a real proposal that really will appear on the November ballot and be voted up or down, it is a lot less academic than most of the stuff we discuss on this list.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
Dear Starchild;
from the article: "If you want to solve the homeless problem, take them in," he
says. "If they stink, give them a shower." It's hard to see how a sit/lie
ordinance would do much to address the issue of kids living on our streets."
the sit/lie is not written to address the issue of kids living on the street. If
the kids are under age 18 there are programs for them. Let the under 18 kids go
to those programs.
The sit/lie does require the offer of assistance to help those who do need help
from all the City taxpayer funded services for the homeless and the sick.
If they are over age 18 and are homeless then we are talking a problem in being
able to earn a living with a job so they have an income to not be homeless. What
could be done to show them how to get and keep a job of some kind or type. Like
the woman mentioned in the article who has a degree in journalism but couldn't
"find " a job and started riding the rails.
The article shows who the sit/lie people are but it does not address the issue
of why they are sit/lie homeless. It does not address the issue of what could be
done other than giving the homeless shelter and a shower.
this is the web site of Civil Sidewalks
http://civilsidewalks.com/ From there web site
Make no mistake, this is not about homelessness. Our supporters are the very
people who help the homeless everyday. Our supporters are members of the ACLU,
......
this is the Face Book site
http://www.facebook.com/Civil.Sidewalks?ref=ts#!/Civil.Sidewalks?v=wall&ref=ts
Once again it is not about the homelessness or kids under age 18 running
about...
The Tenderloin Neighborhood Association also supports sit/lie and itf there was
a neighborhood that faces some of the same sit/lie problems as the Haight this
is one.
http://tenderloinneighborhoodassociation.org/
this is the proposed ordinance read it and see it is not about homelessness or
under age kids on the run or whatever
http://sfgov2.org/ftp/uploadedfiles/elections/candidates/Nov2010_CivilSidewalks.pdf
Ron Getty
Hi Starchild,
I give them a discount because the discount that helps them comes out of my own pocket, not the public's pocket -- or the public's chagrin. They can't afford me, in other words; but they are in there trying, thus, they get my help. Not the help in a ballot proposal that affects those that want to help and those that do not.
And you get it. You do tons in the same vein.
Marcy
Dear Starchild and Marcy
On the ballot issues of Beat Foot Patrols and Sit/Lie - the initiative beat foot
patrols is written so that if it gets more votes than sit/lie - sit/lie will be
invalidated even if voters pass it.
Ron Getty
Dear Ron, Starchild, and All,
Starchild mentioned that "background" has a strong effect on our behavior. I have shared this story before on this list, but need to share it again, since the issue of public help, as opposed to individual help keeps cropping up.
My Dad just about drove the family nuts, as he kept bringing folks in need to the house to feed them. I distinctly remember being fast asleep one night and being awakened by my Dad who moved me to the couch in the living room. You see, a homeless guy who begged around his store fell ill with a very high fever. After some soup, some strong tea with lots of garlic, and a good night's sleep, the guy was fine in the morning. So, if you feel for the homeless, take them in. Or do whatever you personally can do. Don't depend on public attitudes that affect those who care and those who don't.
Marcy
Ron,
That's true. Basically SF voters will have a choice in November whether to address street problems in a way that violates civil liberties or in a way that does not.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
Ron,
"Our" supporters? You actually support this piece of unconstitutional legislation? The ACLU has many thousands of members, and no doubt some of those folks are philosophically inconsistent, but I rather doubt anyone who actually works for the organization supports it. Alan Schlosser of the Northern California chapter of the ACLU spoke at the press conference we had against Prop. L just this morning.
You say this measure isn't about homelessness. What do you think it *is* about then? Does it make any problematic behavior illegal that is not illegal already? Doesn't it bother you that lots of people will be potentially subject to citation by government agents for doing nothing wrong and bothering no one?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))