www.duesberg.com/papers/chemical-bases.html
Keywords. AIDS not contagious; AIDS not immunogenic; drug-free HIV survivors; HIV-free AIDS; mortality on anti-HIV drugs; nonexponential
AIDS epidemics; non-random US/European AIDS; pediatric drug-AIDS; random African AIDS; recreational drug-AIDS
What does this have to do with libertarian politics?
~Chris
Michael, this discussion does nott belong here, but I have discussed this here a few years ago when you brought it up and thought I had put it to rest. Please look for my old posts on this topic.
Dear Chris,
Good question.
It demonstrates how the Govt funding process, influenced by the perverse incentives of political power, distorts health (and environmental) public policy
Best, Michael
OK... then let’s agree that government spending on scientific research
is bad, without adducing screeds from people outside the fact-based
community who weaken that case.
~Chris
Chris,
Ok.
Best, Michael
Dr. Edelstein,
Thank you for posting this information.
Sincerely,
Don Fields
Don, Please look up duesberg on Wikipedia. Giving his theories any credence beyond the confines of intellectual curiosity may have severe repercussions. Not seeking treatment for HIV in a timely manner still leads to many unfortunate avoidable deaths, one of which might have been Ron Paul's campaign manager earlier this summer( conjecture on my part) Too many have died following his dubious conclusions. Questions are valid, but the conclusions are not. Some Spiritual types, and some artsy types are especially vulnerable, as some may lack the intellectual tools to discriminate between valid questions, and discredited conclusions.
Phil,
Which questions do you think are valid, and which conclusions do you think are discredited?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
There is no such thing as a bad question. But in the real world, full of superstition, and ignorance, concluding that HIV is not the primary if not sole driver of Aids is highly irresponsible. the evidence is overwhelming, and the results of ignoring that evidence are often devastating if not lethal. As a matter of scientific curiosity, and even proper dialog withingn the scientific community, raising questions is quite valid, and possibly worthy of some research to search for hidden co factors, but in the realm of the general public, especailly in a clinical setting, questioning the validity of hypothesis among those who are clearly best served by being treated has caused a lot of unnecessary deaths and morbidity. Those poor guys from act up GG or SF I forgot, the one that followed Duesberg, those poor guys died like flies. Very sad. And ron Paul's campaign manager? Did he die of pneumocystis related to AIDS??? and did he fail to seek treatment for the the same reason as the other unfortunate followers of Dr. Duesbergs unfounded conclusions.
Phil,
One thing that troubles me is that it seems like AIDS is simply defined as an immune-related sickness plus the presence of HIV, so that it's kind of a circular definition. If people have the same illness but no HIV antibodies are detected in their system, then they are not said to have AIDS. Admittedly I haven't read much about this lately, and it's possible my info is outdated. But as with global warming and the 9/11 attacks, I have yet to see what I regard as legitimate, important questions answered satisfactorily. Perhaps as someone who is personally affected and has presumably read more than I have, you'll be the one to provide answers that confirm the dominant view in a way that makes sense!
For a long time they couldn't detect the virus itself, only the antibodies to the virus, and the existence of the virus was merely presumed. But someone recently told me that they have detected HIV itself. I'm not sure how good his information was, however; do you know if this is true?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
The virus has been isolated, can be replicated in the proper cell media, it's genetic code has been compleately mapped, and the proteins corresponding to the genetic code have been found, islolated ,and drugs that interfere with those proteins have been created. The level of viral RNA in infected individuals can be quantified, and the levels have proven to be powerful tools in indicating disease states. Put more directly, High viral loads suck, and undectable or very low viral loads are usually highly predictive of good health. As in all things biological, there are always some rare exceptions that lead to further study,but do not invalidate the primary hypothesis. I had viral loads over 50,000 copies per ml before I started treatment and every had undectable levels with a hthreshold of measurement at that time around 200 copies per ml. Certain proteins uniquwe to the virus have been measured and found to have some clinical vaalue for quite some time, I forgot the name of the protein. The virus has been photographed in a scanning electron microscope. Structures on the coat of the virus have been to fit like a key in a lock to resceptor proteins on host cells. Drugs have been developed to interfere with that connection, and the drugs work. People who are known to carry HIV and never develope AIDS have been identified, and most of those people ,if not all, have unusual receptors that do not lock up with the HIV proteins that make the HIV connect to the host cell. A number of these receptors have been identified. The class of drugs that has resulted is called integrase inhibitors.
Of course there are still lots of mysteries, such as why certain strains are prevalent in certain areas, etc. But the basic hypothesis seems to be working rather well, about as reliably as the theory that if one drops an apple from a tree ,it will fall to the ground.
One of the natural correleries of Libertarianism is that each individual has very limited knowledge beyond his field of expertise, and for most that field is the neighborhood, city ,and community he or she lives in. That it is wise to maintain a healthy degree of skepticism of what should be done in far away places, or in unfamiliar disciplines. The problem with government, especially Democratic government, is that people presume that majorities can make decisions about issues about which they know practically nothing, such as Is Iraq a threat? Is Gejorgia vital to US interests? Because of thisessential underlying ignorance, not justof the sheep ,but the shepards. It is best if the herd tries to just mind it's own business, but be ready if the wolf shows up right there in plain sight.
Phil,
Thank you for the information. If HIV is the cause of AIDS, and if it is sexually transmitted, why do you believe it is that there has not been a heterosexual epidemic in the United States and other developed countries? I'm willing to accept that there is a strong *correlation* (if not a perfect one) between the presence of HIV and the various immune-related conditions that are called AIDS, i.e. that you are more likely to have immune system problems if HIV is in your system, but I still wonder about causation.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
There certainly is an epidemic among heterosexuals, the prevalence has to do with risk factors which include prevalence of unprotected anal intercourse, presence of other diseases that compromise natural barriers to infection, condom use, genreal health, degree of abrasion, use of drugs to increase the intensity of contact.All of the risk factors are diffucult to quantify, as it depends on honest self reporting, and is jhighly skewed by the subjectiveness of the participant, the questioner, and various the various taboos of both parties. Of course there are a myriad of reasons for compromised immune systems such leukemia, chemical poisining, genetic dfeficiency, poor nutrition, However ,the AIDS virus is very highly associated with a very specific type of immune deficiency related to t 4 cell deficiency, that manifests in a high prevalence of specific types of infections where the t4 cells are necessary for immune response, therefore ,out of the universe of possible infections, the range that infect HI.AIDS sufferes is limited. For example, someone with aids is not more likely to get the flu, as I understand, but highly likely to get pneumocystis pneunomia, etc. etc. Strep ,I think, is not particularly more common among HIV sufferes , but Staph is. I think. Just because there are a whole lot of ways to get cancer,doesn't mean that heavy smoking does not greatly your risk. You are correct that cause and effect always hypothetical in any scientific question,and especially in infectious disease, otherwise ,the conclusions from observations leave the realm of science and enter the space of dogma, however as a practical matter, using welll founded evidence has must better results for public health than say astrology. the tools of modern statistics were first used in London to trace the root cause of a cholera epidemic, and applying scientific principles yielded results in typhoid. Of course the greatest victory has been the eradication of small pox from the human population. For some FU pped reason some copies are being saved. Polio has also yielded largely to study and elucidation. and the list goes on.
Women can catch HIV from a man, but it is harder for a man to catch HIV
from a woman unless he has an open wound that comes into contact with
her bodily fluids. That asymmetry limits the spread of HIV in strictly
heterosexual people.
This is also one reason why men “on the low-down” are so dangerous; they
may bring HIV home to an unsuspecting wife, and not use protection
because he denies his extramarital adventures.
~Chris
Chris,
Yes, I understand that. But it doesn't explain why HIV (AIDS?) has apparently spread rapidly among heterosexuals in Africa. For that matter, it also seems like there would be more heterosexual women with HIV here.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
I read an article recently that said African men like having sex with
women who are dry as it resembles the experience with virgins. So women
treat themselves to dry the area which leads to more abrasion but
results in more AIDS.
Mike
Man, that's nuts! 8( Considering that it must not be a very pleasant experience, especially if you've had your clitoris largely removed via ritual female genital mutilation, one wonders that African women are still willing to have sex in numbers high enough to produce a high birthrate. It would be nice if there were better news coverage of Africa -- presumably this problem is not universal over the entire continent, but is worse in some places than others, and more attention should be focused on educating people in the areas where the problem is worse. I wonder if any of the billions of dollars in AIDS funding for Africa that Congress voted and Bush approved are going to address this. Probably not. 8(
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))