ACTION ITEM - Call/email Costco about banning concealed carry in stores

I called and emailed Costco, and encourage other freedom lovers to do the same. My letter to them is at the bottom of this email.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

From: "Kim Kacer" <lazpash@...>
Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:11:33 PM US/Pacific
Subject: [GayLibertarians] Fire Mission!
Reply-To: GayLibertarians@yahoogroups.com

Need another assist folks!

We took on MicroCenter - we got them to reverse their discriminatory policy (to ban legal carry of firearms in their stores). Then Kroger got uppity, we spanked them too. Now Costco is apparently getting out of line.

I've posted the original email I received from Chad Baus of the OFCC (Ohioans for Concealed Carry). IMO, Costco will PROBABLY be easier even than Krogers was... Kroger doesn't have a "membership fee (where MOST of their "profits" are generated) NOR did they claim that if you are dissatisfied FOR ANY REASON you may receive a FULL Refund of your membership.

The signs will likely be going up slowly, but surely... kinda like Krogers was planning upon.

Right now I have sightings in Kansas and Ohio. Maybe just "competent" or very "anti" managers???

Please if you can take a minute and email Costco and/or call them I'd really appreciate it. It is coming back consistently as: "corporate policy" to post, though right NOW few are - let's keep it that way.

Call member Services: 800-774-2678

Also / or email them: customerservice@...

Kim Rife
lazpash@...

When citizens fear their government you have tyranny. When government
fears its citizens you have freedom. -Thomas Jefferson

[Original Message]
From: Chad Baus
To: ccw-talk@...
Date: 12/13/2004 5:56:18 PM
Subject: [ccw-talk] Costco goes VZ
The following was sent to OFCC - writer isn't a CCW-Talker, but said I could post this sans his name:
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:27:56 -0500
Subject: Costco
To: info@...
Hello,
Costco as a CPZ yesterday. I also e-mailed them to find out why. I am forwarding their response.
Thanks,
XXXXXXX
From: customerservice@...
Subject: RE: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions
[APZ2004120900003499]
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:47:42 -0800
To reference this e-mail in the future, please make note of the tracking number listed in the subject heading. This message may be monitored for quality assurance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear XXXXXXX,
Thank you for e-mailing Costco Wholesale.
I am sorry but that is a corporate wide policy sent down from our CEO.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth H.
Member Service Phone Agent
ext.1716
customerservice@...
From: IMCReply
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:20 AM
To: Elizabeth Hovanes
Subject: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions
Note this message was submitted through the costco.com web site customer suggestion page on 12/9/2004 12:00:00 AM at 09:19:10.1535192.

Comment/Suggestion/Request/Question Text:
I went to your store in Mayfield Heights, Ohio yesterday. I noticed that a sign prohibiting concealed weapons permit holders from bringing their weapons into the store. Is this a corporate policy?
Do you do this in other states that allow concealed carry? Ohio is one of forty five states that allow it. Ohio law requires individuals with these permits to take extensive training and undergo background check.
These are not the people you should worry about. A person with criminal intent will ignore that sign. I am also a member of BJ's and Sam's Club. Neither of them have posted these signs. If this sign stays up, I will not be renewing my menbership.
I have forwarded this information to the Ohioans for Concealed Carry website. They will place your store in the "do not patronize" list.

Hi,

  I heard recently that some Costco stores have put up signs prohibiting people from carrying concealed weapons. Now I am not a Costco member myself, although I have occasionally shopped at Costco with people who do have memberships. But this is something that would definitely cause me *not* to buy a membership if it continues.

  Frankly I don't understand why the company would have taken such a step. Both MicroCenter and Krogers have previously proposed similar policies, and subsequently withdrawn them in the face of public protest. There are millions of gun owners in the United States, and ultimately they are going to care more about the issue than the people who don't own guns are going to care about banning them. And many people who don't own guns (myself for instance) strongly support the rights of people who do, because we realize that a disarmed society is an enslaved society, and that in a police state, only the police carry guns. The tide has turned away from the victim disarmament folks. That's why you saw John Kerry, the Democratic candidate in the last election, making an effort to show that he was part of the gun culture, and supported the Second Amendment, even though this position was unpopular with his base. The majority of Americans support gun rights.

  Banning guns is not going to protect your customers from violent crime. There has been a ton of evidence compiled on this -- for instance researcher John Lott, author of "More Guns, Less Crime" has showed county by county across the country that violent crime rates are lower in counties which allow concealed carry. When concealed carry laws pass (as they have in a majority of states), the rate of rapes, murders, robberies, etc., in those states have generally decreased. Criminals are less successful at perpetrating violence on people who are armed, and knowing that people are more likely to be armed, they become less likely to try. It's that simple.

  Unless Costco is going to install metal detectors and armed security guards at every store, some mentally disturbed individual could easily walk in and open fire, regardless of whether signs are posted or not. If that were to happen and I was in the store, I would sincerely hope that enough of the other customers were carrying guns so that one of them would have the opportunity to shoot or disarm the shooter and prevent loss of life. But it is these people, the law-abiding folks, who will generally follow the rules and disarm themselves if they see signs prohibiting the carrying of weapons in Costco. Actually, even having metal detectors and security guards wouldn't stop a determined killer from running in and causing mayhem, and even if security were that tight, a killer could still open fire and kill lots of people outside in the parking lot.

  So if Costco wants to keep its customers safe and not lose business, they will rescind this ill-conceived prohibition as quickly as possible in any stores where signs have been posted or the policy has been adopted. Please write back to let me know what action will be taken. Unless and until I hear that the policy is being dropped, I will boycott Costco and encourage others not to shop there.

  We've seen enough encroachments on the freedoms guaranteed to us by the Bill of Rights in the last few years -- it's vitally important that we stand up for the freedoms that we still have left and start to fight to win back what we have lost. I hope you agree, and that Costco will come down on the side of standing for the Second Amendment and other basic human rights, not against them.

Sincerely,
        <<< Starchild >>>

How about all the night clubs that ban firearms? Should we be protesting them too?

Shouldn't private property owners be free to place whatever restrictions they like on who is allowed to enter their property? I guess I don't see how this is a libertarian issue.

-- Steve

Steve,

  Nightclubs are a bit different, because people drink and take drugs there more than they do in warehouse stores. But I am definitely against them searching people. It is not a question of whether establishments have a right to make these rules. Obviously they are privately owned, and we support the owners' legal right to run their businesses as they choose. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't voice our views as consumers. The right to keep and bear arms, like the right to put what you want into your own body, is in jeopardy. When businesses do not respect those rights, it further weakens them, because business rules influence the social climate, and the social climate influences the political climate and the law.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

  Nightclubs are a bit different, because people drink and take

drugs there more than they do in warehouse stores. But I am
definitely against them searching people. It is not a question of
whether establishments have a right to make these rules. Obviously
they are privately owned, and we support the owners' legal right to
run their businesses as they choose. But that doesn't mean we
shouldn't voice our views as consumers. The right to keep and bear
arms, like the right to put what you want into your own body, is in
jeopardy. When businesses do not respect those rights, it further
weakens them, because business rules influence the social climate,
and the social climate influences the political climate and the law.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

Besides, this attempt to make people undangerous is futile; danger is
built into the vital use of the faculties. A martial artist trained
in the use of body and will is more dangerous than a gangster
wielding an automatic; the altered state of a cocaine user is less
dangerous than that of the Islamic militant or Norse bearsark. And
the most dangerous weapons of all are not held in hand- and cannot be
banned without the ruin of the human spirit, if they can be banned at
all. The voice, the flying banner, the culture of memory, the
printed page- these are the instruments that give death to millions-
or life and beauty to them. It is our very human powers that act for
good or for evil at a distance. And ultimately, our only hope of
life in peace and wholeness is our own wisdom, and the choice of joy
over power. We will not find these by seeking to tie the hands of
the powers of others; we must cease seeking our life in power; we
must take the ring into the fire.

The desire to keep others from doing harm is the confession that it
is only weakness that keeps one from doing harm oneself.

I'd rather be dangerous, and wage wars with more artful and colourful
means than swordplay. Saupere vive!

many regards,

Jeanie RIng )(*)(