Please give specific benefits a "Victory In Iraq" will provide to
America and Americans. <
It provides the assurance that nuclear weapons are not being developed by a
regime that had
* killed over a million people,
* invaded one neighbor,
* annexed another by force,
* fired ballistic missiles at two more,
* defied UN disarmament mandates that it was treaty-bound to obey,
* harbored anti-American terrorists (*),
* liked the idea of attacking America (**),
* used chemical WMDs in a war of aggression,
* used chemical WMDs in genocidal attacks on its own citizens, and
* admitted to pursuing nuclear WMDs.
(*) Al Qaeda WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to Iraq where he lived
freely and apparently drew a government salary. Abu Abbas used an Iraqi
diplomatic passport to flee Italy after killing a wheelchair-bound American
on the Achille Lauro, and Saddam protected him from extradition for years in
Baghdad before he was finally captured by the U.S. military in 2003.
(**) Uday Hussein called 9/11 a "courageous operation". A 1992 editorial in
his newspaper Babil asked ""Does the United States realize the meaning of
every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross countries and cities?" http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1106657/posts
Personally as a Libertarian there is absoultely no justification for the
US to have invaded Iraq to " free the Iraqis" and depose a dictator <
Perhaps I did not explain my question properly. What are the specific benefits today for America and Americans today with a "Victory in Iraq" I do not need a list of what Saddam did yesterday.
For the record the list you gave could also just as equally apply to the USA.or Israel.
I also still stand by my assertion there was no valid reason Libertarian or not both sides of the issue or not for the US to invade Iraq.
I was not un-informed about the casualties in Iraq as I am aware of the differences between battlefield and non-battlefield casualties from a variety of sources which do have the breakdowns. This also refers to the lists of non-battlefield casualties evacuated from Iraq of military personnel now estimated at about 30,000!!!
The statement was if the media is Liberal slanted why did the Liberal NY times sit on the un-warranted wiretapping story for a year???
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Brian Holtz <brian@...> wrote:
Ron Getty wrote:
> Please give specific benefits a "Victory In Iraq" will provide to America and Americans. <
It provides the assurance that nuclear weapons are not being developed by a regime that had
killed over a million people,
invaded one neighbor,
annexed another by force,
fired ballistic missiles at two more,
defied UN disarmament mandates that it was treaty-bound to obey,
harbored anti-American terrorists (*),
liked the idea of attacking America (**),
used chemical WMDs in a war of aggression,
used chemical WMDs in genocidal attacks on its own citizens, and
admitted to pursuing nuclear WMDs.
(*) Al Qaeda WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to Iraq where he lived freely and apparently drew a government salary. Abu Abbas used an Iraqi diplomatic passport to flee Italy after killing a wheelchair-bound American on the Achille Lauro, and Saddam protected him from extradition for years in Baghdad before he was finally captured by the U.S. military in 2003.
(**) Uday Hussein called 9/11 a "courageous operation". A 1992 editorial in his newspaper Babil asked ""Does the United States realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross countries and cities?" http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1106657/posts
> Personally as a Libertarian there is absoultely no justification for the US to have invaded Iraq to " free the Iraqis" and depose a dictator <
See above. Are you endorsing any of the rebuttable antiwar arguments cataloged at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/knowinghumans?p=201, or do you have a new one? For a bibliography of notable libertarian arguments on both sides of the issue, see http://blog.360.yahoo.com/knowinghumans?p=213
> The old bromide of the Liberal media is pure hogwash as an example the NY Times sitting on the NSA spying on Americans without search warrants for a whole gol' dang year. <
Thus you do not deny that the media left you uninformed about the nature of the 2200 American military deaths in Iraq.
In counter pose what do you think of the $2 million or so the
Bushitas gave to Fatah for campaign funds??? I don't exactly
recollect where in the US Constitution it says the Guvmint can tax
money from its citizens and give it to a foreign terrorist based
political organization to win in an election over another terrorist
based organizattion known as Hamas???
Oooopsy - Let me see how many civilians has Fatah PLO killed US and
foreign and Israeli?
Talk about funding terrorists - does this mean Bush is going to
attack the US for funding a terrorist organization???
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Derek Jensen <derekj72@g...>
wrote:
Thereby encouraging these homicide bombings in which innocent
American
tourists in Israel were murdered.
> I will add that he provided cash paymets (around 30K USD I
believe) to
> Palestinian homicide bombers.
>
> > Ron Getty wrote:
> >
> > > Please give specific benefits a "Victory In Iraq" will
provide to
> > America and Americans. <
> >
> > It provides the assurance that nuclear weapons are not being
developed by
> a
> > regime that had
> >
> > * killed over a million people,
> > * invaded one neighbor,
> > * annexed another by force,
> > * fired ballistic missiles at two more,
> > * defied UN disarmament mandates that it was treaty-bound to
obey,
> > * harbored anti-American terrorists (*),
> > * liked the idea of attacking America (**),
> > * used chemical WMDs in a war of aggression,
> > * used chemical WMDs in genocidal attacks on its own citizens,
and
> > * admitted to pursuing nuclear WMDs.
> >
> > (*) Al Qaeda WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to Iraq where
he lived
> > freely and apparently drew a government salary. Abu Abbas used
an Iraqi
> > diplomatic passport to flee Italy after killing a wheelchair-
bound
> American
> > on the Achille Lauro, and Saddam protected him from
extradition for years
> in
> > Baghdad before he was finally captured by the U.S. military in
2003.
> >
> > (**) Uday Hussein called 9/11 a "courageous operation". A 1992
editorial
> in
> > his newspaper Babil asked ""Does the United States realize the
meaning of
> > every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross countries and
I dnt know if what you say is true, but if it is, then whoever
authorized it should lose their job, even it goes all the way to the
top.
I also would like an answer as to why the IRA is not on the terrorist
list. Large parts of south boston, the bronx, and brooklyn are raising
money for terrorism in Northern Ireland, and this apparently goes
unnoticed by the administration.
Also there are these additional postings from google about the story
with some 156,000 hits - maybe not all about this funding but all
the first few pages sure are.
The Irish fund raising for the IRA in Boston AND NYC and its lack of
pursuit is pure politics - no further explanation need be said.
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Derek Jensen <derekj72@g...>
wrote:
Ron:
I dnt know if what you say is true, but if it is, then whoever
authorized it should lose their job, even it goes all the way to
the
top.
I also would like an answer as to why the IRA is not on the
terrorist
list. Large parts of south boston, the bronx, and brooklyn are
raising
money for terrorism in Northern Ireland, and this apparently goes
unnoticed by the administration.
>
> Dear Derek;
>
> In counter pose what do you think of the $2 million or so the
> Bushitas gave to Fatah for campaign funds??? I don't exactly
> recollect where in the US Constitution it says the Guvmint can
tax
> money from its citizens and give it to a foreign terrorist based
> political organization to win in an election over another
terrorist
> based organizattion known as Hamas???
>
> Oooopsy - Let me see how many civilians has Fatah PLO killed US
and
> foreign and Israeli?
>
> Talk about funding terrorists - does this mean Bush is going to
> attack the US for funding a terrorist organization???
>
> Ron Getty
> SF Libertarian
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@...m, Derek Jensen <derekj72@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thereby encouraging these homicide bombings in which innocent
> American
> > tourists in Israel were murdered.
> >
> > > I will add that he provided cash paymets (around 30K USD I
> believe) to
> > > Palestinian homicide bombers.
> > >
> > > > Ron Getty wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Please give specific benefits a "Victory In Iraq" will
> provide to
> > > > America and Americans. <
> > > >
> > > > It provides the assurance that nuclear weapons are not
being
> developed by
> > > a
> > > > regime that had
> > > >
> > > > * killed over a million people,
> > > > * invaded one neighbor,
> > > > * annexed another by force,
> > > > * fired ballistic missiles at two more,
> > > > * defied UN disarmament mandates that it was treaty-
bound to
> obey,
> > > > * harbored anti-American terrorists (*),
> > > > * liked the idea of attacking America (**),
> > > > * used chemical WMDs in a war of aggression,
> > > > * used chemical WMDs in genocidal attacks on its own
citizens,
> and
> > > > * admitted to pursuing nuclear WMDs.
> > > >
> > > > (*) Al Qaeda WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to Iraq
where
> he lived
> > > > freely and apparently drew a government salary. Abu Abbas
used
> an Iraqi
> > > > diplomatic passport to flee Italy after killing a
wheelchair-
> bound
> > > American
> > > > on the Achille Lauro, and Saddam protected him from
> extradition for years
> > > in
> > > > Baghdad before he was finally captured by the U.S.
military in
> 2003.
> > > >
> > > > (**) Uday Hussein called 9/11 a "courageous operation". A
1992
> editorial
> > > in
> > > > his newspaper Babil asked ""Does the United States realize
> > > >
> > > > > The old bromide of the Liberal media is pure hogwash as
an
> example the
> > > NY
> > > > Times sitting on the NSA spying on Americans without search
> warrants for
> > > a
> > > > whole gol' dang year. <
> > > >
> > > > Thus you do not deny that the media left you uninformed
Do you mean he provided it to the families of the bombers after Israel had bulldozed their homes? I would support such charities myself. Not because I support bombers, but because I consider punishing a family for the crimes of their relatives to be a human rights violation.
Btw, what do you suppose has caused more civilians deaths?
a) Palestinian suicide bombs
b) bombs dropped from US planes in Iraq
This isn't to say Hussein was a sweetheart, just that the US is in no position of moral authority. In the case of bombings, not even by an order of magnitude.
For some news from the otherside - since the year 2000 it has been reliably or unreliably reported that the Israelis have demolished 7,000 homes. The home demolishment has actually been going on since 1967. So the 7,000 is probably way under. It is acknowledged that some 400 villages have been razed in various Israeli occupation zones.
Secondly some 3,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis and some 1,000 Israelis by bombers and other assorted PLO - Hamas - Fatah methods etc etc etc.
The Israeli attacks also left some 40,000 wounded (???) by UN figures(???).
Talk about creating enemies. Of course, those silly Palestinians keep running full speed at and throwing their bodies in front of Israeli bullets - such fools.
A special documented note is that starting during the Prime Ministership of Menachem Begin in 1978 the Hamas was funded by Israel to counter the PLO Arafat and the Fatah in an attempt to create two competing organizations for the PLO and create a split in leadership etc etc etc.
Talk about blowback.
Ron Getty
SF Libertarian
Steve Dekorte <steve@...> wrote:
I will add that he provided cash paymets (around 30K USD I believe) to
Palestinian homicide bombers.
Do you mean he provided it to the families of the bombers after Israel
had bulldozed their homes? I would support such charities myself. Not
because I support bombers, but because I consider punishing a family
for the crimes of their relatives to be a human rights violation.
Btw, what do you suppose has caused more civilians deaths?
a) Palestinian suicide bombs
b) bombs dropped from US planes in Iraq
This isn't to say Hussein was a sweetheart, just that the US is in no
position of moral authority. In the case of bombings, not even by an
order of magnitude.
-- Steve
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