Tax Day Outreach 2013 April 15

Discussion
1

Hi All,

I have uploaded a "Tax Day Outreach 2013" flier on the Files section of this Discussion List (sflp Tax Day Outreach Flier). This event will be on April 15, 11:30 am - 3:30 pm, San Francisco Civic Center Plaza, right across the street from City Hall. It is a collaborative event, since we have invited Ron Paul Supporters and Tea Partiers to participate.

It would be great if you could print and distribute the flier; e-mail it to your groups; or let your friends, associates, Facebook Friends, fellow activists, etc. know about the event in any way you prefer.

Marcy

2

Thanks, Marcy.

I volunteered my tabling services for 2 hours. If you would inform me as far in advance as possible which 2 hours you want me for, this would be a great help!

Many thanks.

Warm regards, Michael

3

Hi Michael,

If you could help at the table as a greeter/literature distributor from 12:30 to 2:30, that would be very helpful. I am thinking we would need two volunteers at the table (at least), so it would be great if you could stay with me at the table while the rest of the volunteers march to the Federal Building.

Thank you!!

Marcy

--- In lpsf-discuss@...m, "Dr. Michael Edelstein" <drmedelstein.threeminutetherapy@...> wrote:

4

Marcy,

12:30-2:30 works fine, thanks.

Warm regards, Michael

Hi Michael,

If you could help at the table as a greeter/literature distributor from 12:30 to 2:30, that would be very helpful. I am thinking we would need two volunteers at the table (at least), so it would be great if you could stay with me at the table while the rest of the volunteers march to the Federal Building.

Thank you!!

Marcy

5

Ditto here...

Mike

6

Hi Mike D.

Wonderful if you could volunteer to help set up around 10:30 - 11:30 (our permit starts at 11:30 but hopefully, nobody will notice that we are there a little sooner). If that is not good for you, then 12:00 noon would be good too. And then, we need marchers too!!!!!!

Marcy

7

That will be fine...see you then.

Civic Center green area in front of City Hall....right?

Mike

8

Yes, Civic Center Plaza, right across the street from City Hall.

Thank you!

Marcy

9

Marcy,

  Thanks for putting together an outreach flier for the Tax Day event! I'm a little concerned though about the line that reads:

"All liberty loving fiscal conservatives are welcome to participate in this opportunity to speak out against economy- stifling taxes, and to exercise our right to Peaceful Assembly!"

  My thought is that there may be individuals opposed to current tax practices for reasons such as not supporting wars and bailouts, the complexity or unfairness of the tax code, etc., who are not fiscal conservatives, and we shouldn't be excluding them. I would prefer we explicitly list "war tax resisters, bailout opponents, and people opposed to the complexity and unfairness of the tax code". Something about how even poor people and others who do not file income taxes pay indirectly would also be good -- remember we don't want to sound like conservatives.

  Maybe "Outreach Station" should simply refer to an "information table", so people know what they're looking for? Also, the words "supporters" and "patriots" (in "Ron Paul Supporters" and "Tea Party Patriots") should not be capitalized. Finally, and this is a minor stylistic point, but I would say "leave us a message at" rather than "call our voicemail number".

Love & Liberty,
                                ((( starchild )))

10

Hi Marcy,

I join with Starchild in my appreciation of the wonderful job you're doing in organizing the tax protest.

I agree with Starchild's improvement in the sentence he cites. In addition, I suggest you not identify us with conservatives of any ilk (especially in San Francisco!).

How about calling us "fiscal libertarians," rather than "fiscal conservatives?"

Fiscal conservatives have balancing the budget as their core mission. Some fiscal conservatives even advocate raising taxes to balance the budget. Moreover, balancing the budget is a phony issue since it fails to include off-budget items, and the conservative approach involves snipping at the margins of projected spending increases. Worse still, some conservatives, most notably Arthur Laffer and his supply-siders, see a great benefit in cutting taxes in that it will fill Govt coffers.

Warm regards, Michael

Marcy,

  Thanks for putting together an outreach flier for the Tax Day event! I'm a little concerned though about the line that reads:

"All liberty loving fiscal conservatives are welcome to participate in this opportunity to speak out against economy- stifling taxes, and to exercise our right to Peaceful Assembly!"

  My thought is that there may be individuals opposed to current tax practices for reasons such as not supporting wars and bailouts, the complexity or unfairness of the tax code, etc., who are not fiscal conservatives, and we shouldn't be excluding them. I would prefer we explicitly list "war tax resisters, bailout opponents, and people opposed to the complexity and unfairness of the tax code". Something about how even poor people and others who do not file income taxes pay indirectly would also be good -- remember we don't want to sound like conservatives.

  Maybe "Outreach Station" should simply refer to an "information table", so people know what they're looking for? Also, the words "supporters" and "patriots" (in "Ron Paul Supporters" and "Tea Party Patriots") should not be capitalized. Finally, and this is a minor stylistic point, but I would say "leave us a message at" rather than "call our voicemail number".

Love & Liberty,
                                ((( starchild )))

11

Hmmmm, a lot of people with our vision, identify with the label "conservative". These may be the only people we can reach. the neo-cons and others have a fixed agenda already.

How about "fiscal realists"?

12

Are we already partnered with C4L?

________________________________
From: John Bechtol <javlin@...>
To: "lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com" <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Tax Day Outreach 2013 April 15

Hmmmm, a lot of people with our vision, identify with the label "conservative". These may be the only people we can reach. the neo-cons and others have a fixed agenda already.

How about "fiscal realists"?

________________________________
From: Dr. Michael Edelstein <drmedelstein.threeminutetherapy@...>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Tax Day Outreach 2013 April 15

Hi Marcy,

I join with Starchild in my appreciation of the wonderful job you're doing in organizing the tax protest.

I agree with Starchild's improvement in the sentence he cites. In addition, I suggest younot identify us with conservatives of any ilk (especially in San Francisco!).

How about calling us "fiscal libertarians," rather than "fiscal conservatives?"

Fiscal conservatives have balancing the budget as their core mission. Some fiscal conservatives even advocate raising taxes to balance the budget. Moreover, balancing the budget is a phony issue since it fails to include off-budget items, and the conservative approach involves snipping at the margins of projected spending increases. Worse still, some conservatives, most notably Arthur Laffer and his supply-siders, see a great benefit in cutting taxes in that it will fill Govt coffers.

Warm regards, Michael

Marcy,

Thanks for putting together an outreach flier for the Tax Day event! I'm a little concerned though about the line that reads:

"All liberty loving fiscal conservatives are welcome to participate in this opportunity to speak out against economy- stifling taxes, and to exercise our right to Peaceful Assembly!"

My thought is that there may be individuals opposed to current tax practices for reasons such as not supporting wars and bailouts, the complexity or unfairness of the tax code, etc., who are not fiscal conservatives, and we shouldn't be excluding them. I would prefer we explicitly list "war tax resisters, bailout opponents, and people opposed to the complexity and unfairness of the tax code". Something about how even poor people and others who do not file income taxes pay indirectly would also be good -- remember we don't want to sound like conservatives.

Maybe "Outreach Station" should simply refer to an "information table", so people know what they're looking for? Also, the words "supporters" and "patriots" (in "Ron Paul Supporters" and "Tea Party Patriots") should not be capitalized. Finally, and this is a minor stylistic point, but I would say "leave us a message at" rather than "call our voicemail number".

Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))

Yes, Civic Center Plaza, right across the street from City Hall.

Thank you!

Marcy

--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroup! s.com, "mike@..." <mike@...> wrote:

That will be fine...see you then.

Civic Center green area in front of City Hall....right?

Mike

From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lpsfactivists
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 3:06 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: Tax Day Outreach 2013 April 15

Hi Mike D.

Wonderful if you

could volunteer to help set up around 10:30 - 11:30 (our permit starts at 11:30 but hopefully, nobody will notice that we are there a little sooner). If that is not good for you, then 12:00 noon would be good too. And then, we need marchers too!!!!!!

Marcy

>
> Ditto here...
>
> Mike
>
> From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dr. Michael Edelstein
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:55 PM
> To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Tax Day Outreach 2013 April 15
>
>
>
> Thanks, Marcy.
>
> I volunteered my tabling services for 2 hours. If you would inform me as

far in advance as possible which 2 hours you want me for, this would be a great help!

13

John,

  That would be an improvement, yet still some folks have issues with current tax practices which have no particular connection to "fiscal realism".

Love & Liberty,
                               ((( starchild )))

14

Not formally, but locally there's strong affinity between the groups. Except they are now "Golden Gate Liberty r3VOLution", not C4L.

Love & Liberty,
                               ((( starchild )))

15

Hi Michael and Starchild,

Thank you for your good words and for reading the flier! It is not me organizing the Tax Day Outreach, it is Aubrey and me. Aubrey is also working very hard on this event. Given all the work that Aubrey and I have done, and still need to do, we will not be able to give priority to changing words on the written material. Please keep in mind that Aubrey and I are hoping "fiscal conservatives" will bring marchers to this event, since we have heard from them, but not a peep from the Libertarian (big L) groups. Please feel free to produce your own fliers, indicating the information for the day, and being aware that Golden Gate Liberty and Bay Area Tea Party have announced the event.

Thank you, Michael (and Mike D.)for volunteering at the table. If anyone else would like to help in making this event a success, please consider finding a way to put Paypal on the LPSF website in hopes of receiving donations to defray the cost of all the tax-related literature we need on the table, contributing literature on why taxes stifle the economy, making an effort to bring in marchers, volunteering to meet and greet at the event.

Marcy

16

Ya'll probably tired of my harangue, but I think the best strategy is to invite people to help the LP do something. not to inform people. In the case of a political party, that means taking seats in government.

And the republicans are the ones who can do it.

I'd lump them all together
anti-war
fiscal conservatives
anti-bailout
tax code opponents

17

Yes :-); however, I can't believe I am somewhat agreeing with the first paragraph, am hoping for the third paragraph, and do not understand the middle paragraph (clarification?).

Regarding the first paragraph, and my somewhat agreement: My husband kids me that my list of things that bother me is endless, but nothing bothers me more than the Libertarian penchant for "informing" people -- "educating" people. No, folks, we are in there trying to understand like everybody else. We have good suggestions on how things could be better, and should share those suggestions with others; as well as listen to concerns, so that we are not forever talking over everyone's head.

Marcy

18

John,

I don't know.

You can ask Matt: matthew.burrow@campaignforliberty.com

Warm regards, Michael

Are we already partnered with C4L?

19

C4L is a top-own organization in DC, only temporarily having its name on the grass-roots SF/Oakland Ron Paul Meetup group with John Dennis as C4L's ambassador and sharing the same campaign objective. Then, for a while it was C4L John Dennis, when he ran for Congress and C4L Ron Paul, as well.

But at no time was the meetup group a downstream element of John Tate, C4L et al, in DC. and the GGLR is not a participant in C4L's initiatives.

Now there are many other R3volution Meetups, also not organizationally connected to C4L.

When we met with Mat Burrows, he said "audit the fed" is their main initiative. If LPSF is partnered with C4L, it would be through someone in DC. As you recall, we were not able to pin-down any agreements with Mat, about a California coordinator or anyone else he was working with in the area. Those decisions would come from DC.

But....:"audit the fed" is a good slogan and this is not Smallville, Iowa. This is the Big City on the West Coast, in the 900 lb Gorilla of states in the Union. If C4L can't support the SF Libertarians, in a tax-day event, I'd be shocked. And it would certainly call C4L in question. This is the kind of thing we don't want to happen. We want team building instead.

To do that, we need to know all the players by name.

But I'm not in the "mean streets" of SF. I get to call the shots from the side-lines. So if I can help let me know.
John

20

Marcy,

The (little r)republicans have been disenfranchised by by the (big R) RINOS. If they were offered a new home, they, along with the anti-war (little d)democrats would move in. That's where the power is, to take seats in government. I'm a repulican. I don't know any republicans in the Bay Area who think the RNC is OK. But they think of themselves in a certain set of terms that may not reflect who they really are. And they think of themselves as "fiscal conservatives", not the "socialist conservatives" of the neo-con RNC.

And along the way, they will grudgingly get used to Occupy, the anti-war democrats and the anti-police state libertarians.

I think your choice of word may have been politically smart. And as you say you can only do what you can do.
Meanwhile, the real progress is made between "shows".
John