[SFBayCannabisCommunity] Kellogg's company terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use

Robert,

  I regret to learn that your company considers Michael Phelps' marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have decided not to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in a context where governments are still criminalizing people for choices about what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively lends Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that is costing billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do not wish to give my support to a company that is going to take such a stand, so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me that Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and those of others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's products and encourage others know not to buy them either.

  Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some of the notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill Gates, Queen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack London, Daryl Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or society, would have been better off had they been stigmatized for their drug use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents: http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm

  I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on the effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you think it is working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933, RIP) it is a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash heap of history: http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html.

  I hope that during the time it takes you and your colleagues to get your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim of its own hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that the company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by marketing the harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like Frosted Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to smoke, eat, and inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and diabetes.

Love & Liberty,
        ((( starchild )))

Starchild,

Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!

All the best,

Don

I also think Heroin and methamphetamine should be legalized............more
to reduce the property crimes associated with drugs, and to lessen the
incentive for young men to sell them illegally...................not to
mention the cost of imprisonment

but.................... I don't think Kelloggs is going to feature a tweaker
on their box anytime soon...................

so anyway......

That'll teach em

If amphetamines were legal, meth might be used much less as it has both a bad high to strung-out ratio and a bad health and addiction profile. The fact that it's relatively easy to synthesize is what makes it popular and that's only a factor because it is illegal. It's the perfect example of why criminalization does more harm than good.

Seth Meyers would disagree, Glenn...

http://wesawthat.blogspot.com/2009/02/snls-seth-meyers-sums-up-michael-phelps.html

Man.....they deleted the video.........!

Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been, since the
late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think Kellogg's
was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.

Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.

Starchild,

Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!

All the best,

Don

From: Starchild <sfdreamer@...>
To: robert.woodall@...
Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
<SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com>; CALibs@yahoogroups.com;

LPSF

Discussion List <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 5:54 pm
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity] Kellogg's

company

terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use

Robert,

I regret to learn that your company considers Michael Phelps'
marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have decided not
to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in a context
where governments are still criminalizing people for choices about
what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively lends
Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that is costing
billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of
individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do not wish
to give my support to a company that is going to take such a stand,
so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me that
Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and those of
others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's products and
encourage others know not to buy them either.

Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some of the
notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill Gates,
Q
ueen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack London, Daryl
Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or society,
would have been better off had they been stigmatized for their drug
use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents: http://
www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm

I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on the
effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you think it

is

working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933, RIP) it is
a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash heap of
history: The Drug War's Collateral Damage.

I hope that during the time it takes you and your colleagues to get
your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim of its own
hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that the
company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by marketing the
harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like Frosted
Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to smoke, eat,

and

inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and diabetes.

Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))

> Because of his ‘transgressions’, Kelloggs cereal has

announced it

Eric,

Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on the
payroll..........perhaps exposed to the liability/litigation/expense of a
workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the productivity
issues etc.

I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would even employ
someone who smoked a little weed.....

but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give myself a
reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the workplace.

that is the flipside of a free society bub

Nope, it's still there. Maybe the link wrapped. Here's a shorter
version:

Man.....they deleted the video.........!

> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>,

> Glenn Rapp <runnz63@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think Kelloggs is going to feature a tweaker
> > on their box anytime soon...................
> >
>
> Seth Meyers would disagree, Glenn...
>
>
>

That was funny....! Thanks for posting......

We had a rule when we were burning in college......no camera's!

Although I currently do not have employees, I do from time to time
engage independent contractors to help me out when the work is more
than I can handle by myself. I do not expect the government to screen
these folks for me. I can tell all by myself whether they are non
compos mentis due to drugs or any other reason.

Marcy

Eric,

Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on the
payroll..........perhaps exposed to the liability/litigation/expense

of a

workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the

productivity

issues etc.

I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would even employ
someone who smoked a little weed.....

but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give

myself a

reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the workplace.

that is the flipside of a free society bub

> Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been,

since the

> late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think Kellogg's
> was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.
>
> Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>,
> defliberty@ wrote:
> >
> > Starchild,
> >
> > Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > To: robert.woodall@
> > Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
> >

<SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com<SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com>>;

> CALibs@yahoogroups.com <CALibs%40yahoogroups.com>;
> LPSF
> > Discussion List

<lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>

Not sure if that was a rebuke or not

but private employers test themselves, or contract the testing to a third
party

the government has nothing to do with it.....

other than annoying the hell out of you about ever arbitrary deal of your
business

Glenn,

Absolutely not a rebuke, since I believe you have made posts that lead
me to believe that you clearly understand that government interference
in our businesses is nuts! My apologies for not being more clear. To
restate: I determine, in on way or another, who is competent and who
is not...and so should Kellogg.

Marcy

Not sure if that was a rebuke or not

but private employers test themselves, or contract the testing to a

third

party

the government has nothing to do with it.....

other than annoying the hell out of you about ever arbitrary deal of

your

business

> Although I currently do not have employees, I do from time to time
> engage independent contractors to help me out when the work is more
> than I can handle by myself. I do not expect the government to screen
> these folks for me. I can tell all by myself whether they are non
> compos mentis due to drugs or any other reason.
>
> Marcy
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Glenn Rapp <runnz63@> wrote:
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on the
> > payroll..........perhaps exposed to the liability/litigation/expense
> of a
> > workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the
> productivity
> > issues etc.
> >
> > I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would

even employ

> > someone who smoked a little weed.....
> >
> > but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give
> myself a
> > reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the workplace.
> >
> > that is the flipside of a free society bub
> >
> >
> > > Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been,
> since the
> > > late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think Kellogg's
> > > was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.
> > >
> > > Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.
> > >
> > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com><lpsf-discuss%

> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > defliberty@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Starchild,
> > > >
> > > > Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > > > To: robert.woodall@
> > > > Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
> > > >
>

<SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com<SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com>

> <SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com>>;
> > > CALibs@yahoogroups.com <CALibs%40yahoogroups.com> <CALibs%
> 40yahoogroups.com>;
> > > LPSF
> > > > Discussion List
> <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 5:54 pm
> > > > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity] Kellogg's
> > > company
> > > > terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Robert,
> > > >
> > > > I regret to learn that your company considers Michael Phelps'
> > > > marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have

decided not

> > > > to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in a

context

> > > > where governments are still criminalizing people for choices

about

> > > > what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively lends
> > > > Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that is

costing

> > > > billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of
> > > > individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do

not wish

> > > > to give my support to a company that is going to take such a

stand,

> > > > so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me that
> > > > Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and

those of

> > > > others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's

products and

> > > > encourage others know not to buy them either.
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some of the
> > > > notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill

Gates,

> > > > Q
> > > > ueen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack London,

Daryl

> > > > Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or

society,

> > > > would have been better off had they been stigmatized for

their drug

> > > > use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents:

http://

> > > > www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm
> > > >
> > > > I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on the
> > > > effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you

think it

> > > is
> > > > working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933,

RIP) it is

> > > > a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash

heap of

> > > > history: The Drug War's Collateral Damage.
> > > >
> > > > I hope that during the time it takes you and your colleagues

to get

> > > > your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim of

its own

> > > > hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that the
> > > > company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by marketing the
> > > > harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like

Frosted

> > > > Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to smoke,

eat,

> > > and
> > > > inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and diabetes.
> > > >
> > > > Love & Liberty,
> > > > ((( starchild )))
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Because of his ‘transgressions’, Kelloggs cereal has
> > > announced it
> > > > > will NOT renew Michael Phelps contract.
> > > > >
> > > > > So if you care about this issue email the VP of marketing

and tell

> > > > > him that you will NOT be buying their products anymore

because of

> > > > > their position.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Email
> > > > > robert.woodall@ and let him know how you feel!
> > > > >
> > > > > TAKE A STAND! Tell everyone you know, we can make a

difference.

Marcy,

Cheers,

G

I actually have a business and have had employees. Contrary to what
the pundits on talk radio tell you, employees do not forfeit their
rights by being employed.

Eric,

Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on the
payroll..........perhaps exposed to the

liability/litigation/expense of a

workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the

productivity

issues etc.

I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would even

employ

someone who smoked a little weed.....

but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give

myself a

reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the workplace.

that is the flipside of a free society bub

> Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been,

since the

> late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think Kellogg's
> was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.
>
> Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com>,

> defliberty@ wrote:
> >
> > Starchild,
> >
> > Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > To: robert.woodall@
> > Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
> > <SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com<SFBayCannabisCommunity%

40yahoogroups.com>>;

> CALibs@yahoogroups.com <CALibs%40yahoogroups.com>;
> LPSF
> > Discussion List <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com>

> >
> > Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 5:54 pm
> > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity] Kellogg's
> company
> > terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > I regret to learn that your company considers Michael Phelps'
> > marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have

decided not

> > to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in a

context

> > where governments are still criminalizing people for choices

about

> > what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively lends
> > Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that is

costing

> > billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of
> > individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do not

wish

> > to give my support to a company that is going to take such a

stand,

> > so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me that
> > Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and those

of

> > others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's products

and

> > encourage others know not to buy them either.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some of the
> > notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill

Gates,

> > Q
> > ueen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack London,

Daryl

> > Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or

society,

> > would have been better off had they been stigmatized for their

drug

> > use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents:

http://

> > www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm
> >
> > I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on the
> > effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you think

it

> is
> > working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933, RIP)

it is

> > a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash heap

of

> > history: The Drug War's Collateral Damage.
> >
> > I hope that during the time it takes you and your colleagues to

get

> > your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim of

its own

> > hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that the
> > company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by marketing the
> > harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like

Frosted

> > Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to smoke,

eat,

> and
> > inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and diabetes.
> >
> > Love & Liberty,
> > ((( starchild )))
> >
> >
> > > Because of his ‘transgressions’, Kelloggs cereal has
> announced it
> > > will NOT renew Michael Phelps contract.
> > >
> > > So if you care about this issue email the VP of marketing and

tell

> > > him that you will NOT be buying their products anymore

because of

> > > their position.
> > >
> >
> > > Email
> > > robert.woodall@ and let him know how you feel!
> > >
> > > TAKE A STAND! Tell everyone you know, we can make a

difference.

Private employers do not have the right to test anybody. And the
government has ways of putting pressure on them to do so.

Not sure if that was a rebuke or not

but private employers test themselves, or contract the testing to a

third

party

the government has nothing to do with it.....

other than annoying the hell out of you about ever arbitrary deal

of your

business

> Although I currently do not have employees, I do from time to

time

> engage independent contractors to help me out when the work is

more

> than I can handle by myself. I do not expect the government to

screen

> these folks for me. I can tell all by myself whether they are non
> compos mentis due to drugs or any other reason.
>
> Marcy
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com>,

> Glenn Rapp <runnz63@> wrote:
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on

the

> > payroll..........perhaps exposed to the

liability/litigation/expense

> of a
> > workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the
> productivity
> > issues etc.
> >
> > I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would

even employ

> > someone who smoked a little weed.....
> >
> > but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give
> myself a
> > reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the

workplace.

> >
> > that is the flipside of a free society bub
> >
> >
> > > Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been,
> since the
> > > late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think

Kellogg's

> > > was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.
> > >
> > > Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.
> > >
> > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com><lpsf-discuss%

> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > defliberty@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Starchild,
> > > >
> > > > Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > > > To: robert.woodall@
> > > > Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
> > > >
> <SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com<SFBayCannabisCommunity%

40yahoogroups.com>

> <SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com>>;
> > > CALibs@yahoogroups.com <CALibs%40yahoogroups.com> <CALibs%
> 40yahoogroups.com>;
> > > LPSF
> > > > Discussion List
> <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 5:54 pm
> > > > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity]

Kellogg's

> > > company
> > > > terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Robert,
> > > >
> > > > I regret to learn that your company considers Michael

Phelps'

> > > > marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have

decided not

> > > > to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in

a context

> > > > where governments are still criminalizing people for

choices about

> > > > what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively

lends

> > > > Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that

is costing

> > > > billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of
> > > > individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do

not wish

> > > > to give my support to a company that is going to take such

a stand,

> > > > so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me

that

> > > > Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and

those of

> > > > others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's

products and

> > > > encourage others know not to buy them either.
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some

of the

> > > > notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill

Gates,

> > > > Q
> > > > ueen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack

London, Daryl

> > > > Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or

society,

> > > > would have been better off had they been stigmatized for

their drug

> > > > use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents:

http://

> > > > www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm
> > > >
> > > > I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on

the

> > > > effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you

think it

> > > is
> > > > working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933,

RIP) it is

> > > > a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash

heap of

> > > > history: The Drug War's Collateral Damage.
> > > >
> > > > I hope that during the time it takes you and your

colleagues to get

> > > > your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim

of its own

> > > > hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that

the

> > > > company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by

marketing the

> > > > harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like

Frosted

> > > > Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to

smoke, eat,

> > > and
> > > > inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and

diabetes.

> > > >
> > > > Love & Liberty,
> > > > ((( starchild )))
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Because of his ‘transgressions’, Kelloggs cereal has
> > > announced it
> > > > > will NOT renew Michael Phelps contract.
> > > > >
> > > > > So if you care about this issue email the VP of marketing

and tell

> > > > > him that you will NOT be buying their products anymore

because of

> > > > > their position.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Email
> > > > > robert.woodall@ and let him know how you feel!
> > > > >
> > > > > TAKE A STAND! Tell everyone you know, we can make a

difference.

Sorry Eric….but I have to disagree with you. Private employees however have the right to not accept employment from employers that do test. The fact the government puts pressure on employers to test is the reason we are Libertarians. We don’t want the government to have that power. But we must respect the rights of private companies to be in control of their own businesses of we are talking out of both sides of our mouths.

Mike

I second Mike D.'s comment. And that is the point I was trying to
make in my ineffective fashion. There is a difference between
government-mandated testing (Libertarian no-no), and private employers
choosing to test at their own discretion and expense. Applicants that
do not want to be tested need not apply.

Marcy

Sorry Eric….but I have to disagree with you. Private employees

however have the right to not accept employment from employers that do
test. The fact the government puts pressure on employers to test is
the reason we are Libertarians. We don’t want the government to have
that power. But we must respect the rights of private companies to be
in control of their own businesses of we are talking out of both sides
of our mouths.

Mike

________________________________

From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ERIC

Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:30 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity] Kellogg's

company terminates athlete's contract due

Private employers do not have the right to test anybody. And the
government has ways of putting pressure on them to do so.

--- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com> , Glenn Rapp <runnz63@> wrote:

>
> Not sure if that was a rebuke or not
>
> but private employers test themselves, or contract the testing to a
third
> party
>
> the government has nothing to do with it.....
>
> other than annoying the hell out of you about ever arbitrary deal
of your
> business
>
>
> > Although I currently do not have employees, I do from time to
time
> > engage independent contractors to help me out when the work is
more
> > than I can handle by myself. I do not expect the government to
screen
> > these folks for me. I can tell all by myself whether they are non
> > compos mentis due to drugs or any other reason.
> >
> > Marcy
> >
> > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com> <lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Glenn Rapp <runnz63@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > > Obviously you have never owned a business. Never had people on
the
> > > payroll..........perhaps exposed to the
liability/litigation/expense
> > of a
> > > workplace accident due to impairment.........not to mention the
> > productivity
> > > issues etc.
> > >
> > > I agree that drugs should be legalized...........and I would
even employ
> > > someone who smoked a little weed.....
> > >
> > > but since its my money I'm spending, I reserve the right to give
> > myself a
> > > reasonable assurance that my employee's aren't stoned the
workplace.
> > >
> > > that is the flipside of a free society bub
> > >
> > >
> > > > Many people don't realize that Corporate America has been,
> > since the
> > > > late 1980s, major promotors of the War on Drugs. I think
Kellogg's
> > > > was one of the first to start 'mandatory' drug-testing.
> > > >
> > > > Mandatory drug testing of any kind is illegal.
> > > >
> > > > --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com> <lpsf-discuss%

40yahoogroups.com><lpsf-discuss%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > defliberty@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Starchild,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your letter to Kellogg is excellent!
> > > > >
> > > > > All the best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Don
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Starchild <sfdreamer@>
> > > > > To: robert.woodall@
> > > > > Cc: SFBay Cannabis Community List
> > > > >
> > <SFBayCannabisCommunity@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com> <SFBayCannabisCommunity%

40yahoogroups.com>
> > <SFBayCannabisCommunity%40yahoogroups.com>>;
> > > > CALibs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALibs%40yahoogroups.com>

<CALibs%40yahoogroups.com> <CALibs%

> > 40yahoogroups.com>;
> > > > LPSF
> > > > > Discussion List
> > <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com> <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <lpsf-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 5:54 pm
> > > > > Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Re: [SFBayCannabisCommunity]
Kellogg's
> > > > company
> > > > > terminates athlete's contract due to marijuana use
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert,
> > > > >
> > > > > I regret to learn that your company considers Michael
Phelps'
> > > > > marijuana use to be a "transgression" such that you have
decided not
> > > > > to renew this talented young athlete's contract. Coming in
a context
> > > > > where governments are still criminalizing people for
choices about
> > > > > what to put into their own bodies, this action effectively
lends
> > > > > Kellogg's moral support to an immoral "War on Drugs" that
is costing
> > > > > billions of dollars a year in taxpayer money and millions of
> > > > > individual lives and families are destroyed. I certainly do
not wish
> > > > > to give my support to a company that is going to take such
a stand,
> > > > > so unless I learn of subsequent actions that convince me
that
> > > > > Kellogg's has more respect for my consensual choices and
those of
> > > > > others, I am going to do my best not to buy Kellogg's
products and
> > > > > encourage others know not to buy them either.
> > > > >
> > > > > Meanwhile, I encourage you to check out this list of some
of the
> > > > > notable people who've smoked marijuana -- people like Bill
Gates,
> > > > > Q
> > > > > ueen Victoria, Morgan Freeman, John F. Kennedy, Jack
London, Daryl
> > > > > Hannah, etc. -- and ask yourself whether either they, or
society,
> > > > > would have been better off had they been stigmatized for
their drug
> > > > > use and denied the opportunity to exercise their talents:
http://
> > > > > www.veryimportantpotheads.com:80/main2.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > I even more strongly encourage you to read this article on
the
> > > > > effects of Drug Prohibition, and ask yourself whether you
think it
> > > > is
> > > > > working, or whether, like alcohol Prohibition (1919-1933,
RIP) it is
> > > > > a colossal failure and deserves to be relegated to the ash
heap of
> > > > > history: The Drug War's Collateral Damage.

<http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html.&gt;

> > > > >
> > > > > I hope that during the time it takes you and your
colleagues to get
> > > > > your heads on straight, Kelloggs will not become a victim
of its own
> > > > > hypocrisy by encouraging such an anti-freedom climate that
the
> > > > > company's own freedom to engage in drug-pushing by
marketing the
> > > > > harmful drug of sugar to children via sugary cereals like
Frosted
> > > > > Flakes is threatened by law. People have the right to
smoke, eat,
> > > > and
> > > > > inject what they want, even if it causes cavities and
diabetes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Love & Liberty,
> > > > > ((( starchild )))
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Because of his ‘transgressions’, Kelloggs

cereal has

ERIC wrote:

I actually have a business and have had employees. Contrary to what
the pundits on talk radio tell you, employees do not forfeit their
rights by being employed.

The employer-employee relationship is (or should be) a private one. If
a company makes testing a condition of employment, a prospective
employee can accept or reject that condition along with the job. No one
has the right to a non-testing job, or any job at all, for that matter.

~Chris

Chris,

Your response to Eric was even keeled and factual.

As you said below, Eric has a right to flip burgers at a place that won't
test him for drugs, as well as the right to pursue a more lucrative
knowledge based opportunity at a private employer that does require
(lawfully) drug and alcohol testing.

I find Eric's approach to Libertarianism a curious one.

All police are pigs, and all private employers have no rights whatsoever to
have a clean, sober, safe workplace..............

I say to you Eric

Whatever

Gman