RE: [lpsf-discuss] Re: The Libertarian Dem

I deserve it....

So, we Libertarians *talk* about recruiting disaffected main-party
people; but I just Googled these Libs-Dems/Dem-Libs and bet they are
picking off Libertarians! Lots of websites and lots of well written
discourse aiming specifically at recruiting Libertarians. Thankfully,
I did find a couple of sites that address the obvious contradiction
in terms contained in "Libertarian-Democrats." For an example of a
Lib-Dem site: http://freedomdemocrats.org/libertarian. I am planning
to join their discussion groups.

Marcy

I deserve it....

________________________________

From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-

discuss@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Derek Jensen
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:05 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: The Libertarian Dem

Pigpile on Mike.

OK, OK...what was I thinking?

________________________________

From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-

discuss@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Derek Jensen
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:57 PM

To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: The Libertarian Dem

The originator of te word "libertarian paternalism" was a professor

of

mine Richard Thaler. Trust me, he's a big leftist. There's nothing
libertarian about a philosophy that tries to use government to

protect

people from themselves.

I can appreciate what you are saying Dr. Michael....however the
Libertarian label has mostly been ignored and unused by the
establishment. So it's nice to see it being used even though
misinterpreted like so many other ideas. However marginally, it

still

seems marginally a step forward on the PR front and hopefully

worthy of

note on this list. Not quite what I'd hope for but at least a

mention.

Mike

________________________________

From: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-

discuss@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of dredelstein@threeminutethera py.com <http://py.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:39 PM

To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Walter Block; Anthony Gregory
Subject: Re: [lpsf-discuss] Re: The Libertarian Dem

Mike,

I had the opposite reaction.

The word "libertarian," like "liberal" before it, was once a word of
purity and strength denoting a lover of freedom in the political

realm.

Libertarian meant a passionate advocate of freedom from tyranny,

which

is synonymous with freedom from Govt, the major tyrant.

Now, sadly, this beautiful word seems to be meeting the same tragic

fate

as "liberal" had. It may be time to jettison our beloved label and

find

one yet uncorrupted by the statists.

Best, Michael

From: Mike Denny <mailto:mike@…>

To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:56 PM

Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] Re: The Libertarian Dem

No question Marcy...I just like seeing the name Libertarian get

into the

discussions of the other parties. Little by little, we will

hopefully

penetrate the consciousness of society. Getting mentioned is a small
step in the right direction.

Mike
>
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/7/131550/7297
>
> The Libertarian Dem
>
>
> by kos <http://kos.dailykos.com>
>
>
> Wed Jun 07, 2006 at 10:15:50 AM PDT
>
>
> It's no secret that I look to the Mountain West for the future of
the
> Democratic Party, people like Brian Schweitzer and Jon Tester.

But I

> also look to candidates like Jim Webb in Virginia and Paul

Hackett

in
> Ohio.
>
> And what is the common thread amongst these candidates?
>
> They are all Libertarian Democrats.
>
> Ack, the "L" word! But hear me out.
>
> Traditional "libertarianism" holds that government is evil and

thus

must
> be minimized. Any and all government intrusion is bad. While
practical
> libertarians (as opposed to those who waste their votes on the
> Libertarian Party) have traditionally aligned themselves with the
> Republicans, it's clear that the modern GOP has no qualms about
> trampling on personal liberties. Heck, it's become their raison

d'

etre.
>
>
> The problem with this form of libertarianism is that it assumes

that

> only two forces can infringe on liberty -- the government and

other

> individuals.
>
> The Libertarian Democrat understands that there is a third danger

to

> personal liberty -- the corporation. The Libertarian Dem

understands

> that corporations, left unchecked, can be huge dangers to our
personal
> liberties.
>
> Libertarian Dems are not hostile to government like traditional
> libertarians. But unlike the liberal Democrats of old times (now
all but
> extinct), the Libertarian Dem doesn't believe government is the
solution
> for everything. But it sure as heck is effective in checking the
power
> of corporations.
>
> In other words, government can protect our liberties from those

who

> would infringe upon them -- corporations and other individuals.
>
> So in practical terms, what does a Libertarian Dem look like? A
> Libertarian Dem rejects government efforts to intrude in our
bedrooms
> and churches. A Libertarian Dem rejects government "Big Brother"
> efforts, such as the NSA spying of tens of millions of Americans.

A

> Libertarian Dem rejects efforts to strip away rights enumerated

in

the
> Bill of Rights -- from the First Amendment to the 10th. And yes,
that
> includes the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms.
>
> So far, this isn't much different than what a traditional
libertarian
> believes. Here is where it begins to differ (and it shouldn't).
>
> A Libertarian Dem believes that true liberty requires freedom of
> movement -- we need roads and public transportation to give people
> freedom to travel wherever they might want. A Libertarian Dem
believes
> that we should have the freedom to enjoy the outdoor without

getting

> poisoned; that corporate polluters infringe on our rights and
should be
> checked. A Libertarian Dem believes that people should have the
freedom
> to make a living without being unduly exploited by employers. A
> Libertarian Dem understands that no one enjoys true liberty if

they

> constantly fear for their lives, so strong crime and poverty
prevention
> programs can create a safe environment for the pursuit of
happiness. A
> Libertarian Dem gets that no one is truly free if they fear for
their
> health, so social net programs are important to allow individuals

to

> continue to live happily into their old age. Same with health

care.

And
> so on.
>
> The core Democratic values of fairness, opportunity, and

investing

in
> our nation and people very much speak to the concept of personal
> liberties -- an open society where success is predicated on the
merit of
> our ideas and efforts, unduly burdened by the government,

corporate

> America, or other individuals. And rather than always get in the
way,
> government can facilitate this.
>
> Of course, this also means that government isn't always the
solution to
> the nation's problems. There are times when business-government
> partnerships can be extremely effective (such as job retraining
efforts
> for displaced workers). There are times when government really
should
> butt out (like a great deal of small-business regulation). Our

first

> proposed solution to a problem facing our nation shouldn't be more
> regulation, more government programs, more bureaucracy.
>
> The key here isn't universal liberty from government intrusion,

but

> policies that maximize individual freedom, and who can protect

those

> individual freedoms best from those who would infringe.
>
> I am very much a Libertarian Dem, and this is exactly what my

next

book
> will be about. It's progressivism for a new century. And that's

what