RE: [lpsf-discuss] In Defense of Freedom

Rich - So in that case, maybe we should put all the
Iraqi people on trial for Saddam's warcrimes as well?
Not to mention the Japanese, Germans, Russians..
And why should those that don't or can't pay taxes get
off the hook? hmmmm

And who is so worthy to determine my level of
responsibility as a passivist in someone else's war
crimes? I think it's hard enough to determine crime
and punishment for those directly responsible.

I truly believe that I am absolved of any
responsibility in this case. I voted against the
current crop of federal politicians, I have not signed
or taken any oath of responsibility for gov't as a
U.S. Citizen, and I only pay taxes to avoid
imprisonment. Also, I've never owned a slave or killed
an Indian. What more can I do?

cheers...david

--- Richard Newell <richard@...> wrote:

Dear David and Mike and Mike and Richard and All Others;

Monday www.LewRockwell.com had on his web site a re-print of a Murray Rothbard article on Guilt Sanctified or the Imposing of Collective Guilt. The article makes for an interesting counter-point to national guilt vs. individual responsibility for crimes against humanity and who should pay the price for the depradations.

             http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard71.html

In the same sense of who is guilty and who should pay the price Anthony Gregory has a good article on Lew Rockwell today on - Surprise - Surprise - Surprise: Impeaching Bush!! He makes some good points as to why Mr. Bush the Compassionate Conservative - I Have A Mandate - Don't Have To Accept Responsibility - I'm Spreading Democracy should be impeached for high crimes and misdeameanors.

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory66.html

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

David Rhodes <dfrhodes@...> wrote:
Rich - So in that case, maybe we should put all the
Iraqi people on trial for Saddam's warcrimes as well?
Not to mention the Japanese, Germans, Russians..
And why should those that don't or can't pay taxes get
off the hook? hmmmm

And who is so worthy to determine my level of
responsibility as a passivist in someone else's war
crimes? I think it's hard enough to determine crime
and punishment for those directly responsible.

I truly believe that I am absolved of any
responsibility in this case. I voted against the
current crop of federal politicians, I have not signed
or taken any oath of responsibility for gov't as a
U.S. Citizen, and I only pay taxes to avoid
imprisonment. Also, I've never owned a slave or killed
an Indian. What more can I do?

cheers...david

--- Richard Newell <richard@...> wrote:

I've been following the two Michael's discussion
about government restitution with interest. How
about this...

The restitution could be in proportion to the
culpability. Top decision makers pay the highest
penalties; perhaps criminal as well as civil. Those
of us only peripherally involved would have much
lower amounts to pay, perhaps via our taxes.

Is our culpability increasing right now? What are
we doing to end the war in Iraq, at this moment?

Rich

From: "Acree, Michael" <acreem@...>
Sent: Mar 8, 2005 12:35 PM
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] Fw: In Defense of
Freedom

<html><body>

<tt>
Michael:<BR>
<BR>
That may well be the best solution, even if I'm
still a little bothered by the asymmetry (agent held
responsible–individuals–not quite the same as the
perpetrator–collective), and drawing boundaries
would be difficult in practice (the janitors in the
Pentagon? the psychologists?). But I would still be
prepared to accept your solution as sufficient in
principle.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
Mike <BR>
<BR>
From: Michael
[mailto:dredelstein@…]<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:30 PM<BR>
To: lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] Fw: In Defense of
Freedom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mike,<BR>
<BR>
> But I'm<BR>
uncomfortable with the implication that governments
bear no<BR>
responsibility for their actions. <<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you can circumvent this discomfort by
holding the government <BR>
officials themselves individually liable, rather
than "the Govt" as a <BR>
collective (which means you and I, not the politicos
who are <BR>
responsible).<BR>
<BR>
Best, Michael<BR>
www.ThreeMinuteTherapy.com<BR>
DrEdelstein@…<BR>
<BR>
From: "Acree, Michael" <acreem@…><BR>
To: <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Cc: "Stephen Bender" <sbbender@…><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:24 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: [lpsf-discuss] FW: In Defense of
Freedom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for this article, Mike. The author makes an
interesting point<BR>
which is relevant to one of our lunch topics: "The
distinguishing<BR>
characteristic of libertarianism is that it applies
to the state the<BR>
same ethical rules that apply to everyone else."
That was essentially<BR>
my basis for agreeing with Stephen that the U.S.
owes reparations to<BR>
Iraq: The U.S. government is the agent which has
imposed<BR>
(catastrophic)<BR>
costs on Iraq, therefore the U.S. government owes
restitution. It's<BR>
true, as most of the others were arguing, that
(true) libertarians did<BR>
not and would not support the war. Perhaps it could
be argued that we<BR>
bear some responsibility for having failed to stop
it. But I'm<BR>
uncomfortable with the implication that governments
bear no<BR>
responsibility for their actions.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

==================
Richard Newell
richard@...
+1 (408) 882-4785

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