Questioning nationalist language and "self"-determination

In a message dated 10/30/03 6:29:36 PM, mike@... writes:

<< Consider your audience when talking about rights...people of faith love
to hear you talk of G_d-given rights. For those that aren't, use
"natural"- rights. Either way, you have them talking about rights that
are not man-made and that's a good thing.

Mike >>

It was presumptuous for me to think that Starchild would agree with me when I
said rights are "God given." I'm not "PC" and certainly not "SF-PC" when I
write down my thoughts. I hope we haven't reached a place where personal
thoughts must be?

Live free or die, Michael S.

Michael R. Sawyer
Trade Printing
1761 Kelly Street
San Mateo, CA 94403
USA
ph: 650-286-0970
fax: 650-286-1980

Michael,

  I never would have suspected you of being PC. 8) If you believe in a supreme being who created the human race, it makes sense for you to say "god-given" rights, and I realize that minus the filter of faith we are talking about the same thing. I was merely letting you know how I would say it -- you're free to do otherwise.

  I'm sure Mike Denny is also correct that the phrase "god-given rights" would typically resonate more than "natural rights" with a religious audience. If I thought about it (and believe it or not I don't *always* use language as consciously as I should!), in such a context I might say something like "whether you believe we naturally possess rights or they come to us from a power higher than government, either way no other human being or group of people may justly deprive us of those rights."

Yours in liberty,
              <<< Starchild >>>

Because I want to grow the Libertarian party, I want to be PC, but definately without compromising my principles. So whenever I mention rights, I will try to remember not to qualify them (saying neither god-given nor innate nor negotiated nor
man-made) since this appears to be a subject of some contention. I think I am right (negotiated) but why lose my audience when this issue is practically irrelevant to the Libertarian campaign?

In this vein, I would like to collect a list of terms and a set of framings that we can all draw from in preparing statements. Before I start, has anyone already gone down this path?

-Mike

Starchild wrote:

Hi everybody!

I will not be available during the month of November (starting Monday Nov 3rd). I would appreciate being taken out of the list during this month since I won't be able to access e-mail (so my e-mail account doesn't overflow).

I have the advantage, however, of having Starchild around so I can always be best informed about what's going on...

Love and Liberty for ALL!

Raphael

"All destiny begins with thinking."
                                   -Percival

Hi Raphael,

You can manage your subscription by using the web interface at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpsf-discuss/

(click on the "edit my membership" link)

-- Steve

Raphael,

If you have trouble managing your subscription at the Yahoo site, I suggest that you unsubscribe from the list at lpsf.org and then subscribe again when you are ready to get back on the list. I'm not sure, but I think doing that sends a message to the webmaster (Bryce), who then would have to manually unsubscribe you, so it would take longer to unsubscribe that way than to use the Yahoo site. But I'm fairly sure that just sending a message to this list won't get you unsubscribed.

At the home page of lpsf.org, look for "Subscribe to our email lists" near the bottom on the right. When you click on that, you will be taken to a page where you can subscribe or unsubscribe. However, following Steve's instructions would be best.

Hoping to see you again when you return,

Kelly

Sorry everyone, but Raphael isn't receiving your suggestions. You
should email him directly if you want to reach him before his month
off. About half an hour after he emailed his request to be removed
from the list, I manually set his account to "no email" in the
lpsf-discuss group. But thanks for clarifying that the best way is
to use the Yahoo system instead of just emailing the list. By the
way, unsubscription instructions are at the bottom of each and every
email that comes out of the Yahoo system. Yet another benefit of us
switching over from Netwiz.

Rob

- -----Original Message-----

Thank You Steve!!

Cheers and Liberty,

Raphael

Steve Dekorte <steve@...> wrote:

I will not be available during the month of November (starting Monday
Nov 3rd). I would appreciate being taken out of the list during this
month since I won't be able to access e-mail (so my e-mail account
doesn't overflow).

Hi Raphael,

You can manage your subscription by using the web interface at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpsf-discuss/

(click on the "edit my membership" link)

-- Steve

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"All destiny begins with thinking."
                                   -Percival