One way some of us may be able to help

Michael,

It's important to stick to the facts.
Otherwise the anti-war message will be obscured by inaccuracies
and people not belonging to the 'choir' will find you less than
credible.

I give you two examples:

1. The AWOL numbers are not very high at all.
2. George W. Bush did not desert ever.

There is plenty not to like about war, and this war in specific,
without passing on bad information. This stuff is just like
the allegations that Halliburton was depriving US soldiers
of water so they were dying of heat prostration.

As Libertarians, we are already perceived as conspiracy theory
crackpots that will believe and repeat anything.
Let's not prove the public right.

Bruce Cohen

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed or implied in this email may not represent mainstream libertarian thought.

Maybe there are consipracy theory "crackpots" among us. They should be allowed to speak freely. Their actions may not be representative of the party, but just of them.

As a "crackpot" myself, and not wanting to potentially blight the party with my less-than-mainstream views on anarchy, self-interest, violence, pragmatism-vs-principle, etc, I'm starting to put DISCLAIMERS on the more potentially controversial posts. Maybe I'll do that on all my posts. Because I DO think it is very useful to maintain a distinction between what it means to be a Libertarian and what it means to be Mike Dilger. When posting in this forum, people (especially new members) aparently get confused, not having a full knowledge of the party platform.

-Mike

Bruce Cohen wrote:

As a former member of the Great Marine Corps, I must hasten to agree and add some clarification. In military parlance, A.W.O.L. means exactly what those four letters stand for; absent without leave. I cannot remember the time length that must elapse before this ceases to be a relatively minor offense, and becomes desertion.( I think that it is twelve months, and my information says that GWB was gone for eleven.) Desertion is a serious offense, with grave consequences. I do not, emphatically speaking, like, admire, trust, respect or otherwise generate any positive feelings for our "so-called" Commander-in-chief, however, his crime was not desertion. If it was, during war-time, he could have been shot, or minimally sent to break rocks at Leavenworth. Just a further point of clarification, although I was a Marine (once one, always one,) I do not support the current events other than anguishing for my brethen over there that are sitting ducks.

'Nec mihi vera loqui pudor est'
Semperius Fidelis
Leilani

Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen@...> wrote:
Michael,

It's important to stick to the facts.
Otherwise the anti-war message will be obscured by inaccuracies
and people not belonging to the 'choir' will find you less than
credible.

I give you two examples:

1. The AWOL numbers are not very high at all.
2. George W. Bush did not desert ever.

There is plenty not to like about war, and this war in specific,
without passing on bad information. This stuff is just like
the allegations that Halliburton was depriving US soldiers
of water so they were dying of heat prostration.

As Libertarians, we are already perceived as conspiracy theory
crackpots that will believe and repeat anything.
Let's not prove the public right.

Bruce Cohen

As odd as it may seem (or maybe not,) I am replying to one of my own replies. (?)
Anyway, the main ( an probably only) reason that the incidences of A.W.O.L. are low, is because where are they going to go?
Leilani

Leilani Wright <plantagenetregina1157@...> wrote:
As a former member of the Great Marine Corps, I must hasten to agree and add some clarification. In military parlance, A.W.O.L. means exactly what those four letters stand for; absent without leave. I cannot remember the time length that must elapse before this ceases to be a relatively minor offense, and becomes desertion.( I think that it is twelve months, and my information says that GWB was gone for eleven.) Desertion is a serious offense, with grave consequences. I do not, emphatically speaking, like, admire, trust, respect or otherwise generate any positive feelings for our "so-called" Commander-in-chief, however, his crime was not desertion. If it was, during war-time, he could have been shot, or minimally sent to break rocks at Leavenworth. Just a further point of clarification, although I was a Marine (once one, always one,) I do not support the current events other than anguishing for my brethen over there that are sitting ducks.

'Nec mihi vera loqui pudor est'
Semperius Fidelis
Leilani

Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen@...> wrote:
Michael,

It's important to stick to the facts.
Otherwise the anti-war message will be obscured by inaccuracies
and people not belonging to the 'choir' will find you less than
credible.

I give you two examples:

1. The AWOL numbers are not very high at all.
2. George W. Bush did not desert ever.

There is plenty not to like about war, and this war in specific,
without passing on bad information. This stuff is just like
the allegations that Halliburton was depriving US soldiers
of water so they were dying of heat prostration.

As Libertarians, we are already perceived as conspiracy theory
crackpots that will believe and repeat anything.
Let's not prove the public right.

Bruce Cohen

Leilani,

  Wow, I had no idea you were in the Marines! What was your occupation specialty in the military?

Yours in liberty,
              <<< Starchild >>>

As a former member of the Great Marine Corps, I must hasten to agree and add some clarification. In military parlance, A.W.O.L. means exactly what those four letters stand for; absent without leave. I cannot remember the time length that must elapse before this ceases to be a relatively minor offense, and becomes desertion.( I think that it is twelve months, and my information says that GWB was gone for eleven.) Desertion is a serious offense, with grave consequences. I do not, emphatically speaking, like, admire, trust, respect or otherwise generate any positive feelings for our "so-called" Commander-in-chief, however, his crime was not desertion. If it was, during war-time, he could have been shot, or minimally sent to break rocks at Leavenworth. Just a further point of clarification, although I was a Marine (once one, always one,) I do not support the current events other than anguishing for my brethen over there that are sitting ducks.

'Nec mihi vera loqui pudor est'
Semperius Fidelis
Leilani

Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen@...> wrote:

Michael,

It's important to stick to the facts.
Otherwise the anti-war message will be obscured by inaccuracies
and people not belonging to the 'choir' will find you less than
credible.

I give you two examples:

1. The AWOL numbers are not very high at all.
2. George W. Bush did not desert ever.

There is plenty not to like about war, and this war in specific,
without passing on bad information. This stuff is just like
the allegations that Halliburton was depriving US soldiers
of water so they were dying of heat prostration.

As Libertarians, we are already perceived as conspiracy theory
crackpots that will believe and repeat anything.
Let's not prove the public right.

Bruce Cohen

From: "Acree, Michael" <acreem@...>
To: <lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: [lpsf-discuss] One way some of us may be able to help

> 5) A new underground railroad
> Nuvo
>
> "Service members know the consequences of going absent without leave
> (unauthorized absence in the Navy) -- a maximum penalty of five years
> confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and a dishonorable
> discharge. The maximum penalty for desertion in a time of war is
> death. Yet some military personnel are going AWOL or deserting to
> avoid returning to Iraq. ... 'If everything else fails, people should
> desert, just as George W. Bush did during the Vietnam War,' [Army
> veteran Carl Rising-Moore] said. ... Rising-Moore said people all
> over the country are willing to harbor deserters and help them escape
> to Canada. ... Rising-Moore is currently in Canada to gather support
> for what he called the 'Freedom Underground.'" (11/05/03)
>
> http://www.nuvo.net/archive/2003/11/05/a_new_underground_railroad.html
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> lpsf-discuss-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

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Dear Starchild:
I was a Military Police Officer. I actually enjoyed 98% of the experience, however I am very thank-ful that I am not currently attached to the military in any way for the reasons I mentioned previously. On a slightly different subject, did you receive the e-mail I posted explaining my position on J. R.?
Leilani

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Leilani,

Wow, I had no idea you were in the Marines! What was your occupation
specialty in the military?

Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>

As a former member of the Great Marine Corps, I must hasten to agree
and add some clarification. In military parlance, A.W.O.L. means
exactly what those four letters stand for; absent without leave. I
cannot remember the time length that must elapse before this ceases to
be a relatively minor offense, and becomes desertion.( I think that
it is twelve months, and my information says that GWB was gone for
eleven.) Desertion is a serious offense, with grave consequences. I do
not, emphatically speaking, like, admire, trust, respect or otherwise
generate any positive feelings for our "so-called" Commander-in-chief,
however, his crime was not desertion. If it was, during war-time, he
could have been shot, or minimally sent to break rocks at Leavenworth.
Just a further point of clarification, although I was a Marine (once
one, always one,) I do not support the current events other
than anguishing for my brethen over there that are sitting ducks.

'Nec mihi vera loqui pudor est'
Semperius Fidelis
Leilani

Bruce Cohen

wrote:

Leilani,

Semper Fi! Also, from what I remember 21 years ago
while at Parris Island, I believe today is also the
birthday of the Corps. Funny how every detail stays
with us.

Dave Barker

P.S. I also served three years in the US Coast Guard
if anyone wants to discuss my/that perspective of the
"War on Drugs."

Leilani,

  Cool... yes, I got your other email. You sent it to me privately.

                <<< Starchild >>>

Dear Starchild:
I was a Military Police Officer. I actually enjoyed 98% of the experience, however I am very thank-ful that I am not currently attached to the military in any way for the reasons I mentioned previously. On a slightly different subject, did you receive the e-mail I posted explaining my position on J. R.?
Leilani

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:

Leilani,

Wow, I had no idea you were in the Marines! What was your occupation
specialty in the military?

Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>

> As a former member of the Great Marine Corps, I must hasten to agree
> and add some clarification. In military parlance, A.W.O.L. means
> exactly what those four letters stand for; absent without leave. I
> cannot remember the time length that must elapse before this ceases to
> be a relatively minor offense, and becomes desertion.( I think that
> it is twelve months, and my information says that GWB was gone for
> eleven.) Desertion is a serious offense, with grave consequences. I do
> not, emphatically speaking, like, admire, trust, respect or otherwise
> generate any positive feelings for our "so-called" Commander-in-chief,
> however, his crime was not desertion. If it was, during war-time, he
> could have been shot, or minimally sent to break rocks at Leavenworth.
> Just a further point of clarification, although I was a Marine (once
> one, always one,) I do not support the current events other
> than anguishing for my brethen over there that are sitting ducks.
>
> 'Nec mihi vera loqui pudor est'
> Semperius Fidelis
> Leilani
>
> Bruce Cohen wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> It's important to stick to the facts.
> Otherwise the anti-war message will be obscured by inaccuracies
> and people not belonging to the 'choir' will find you less than
> credible.
>
> I give you two examples:
>
> 1. The AWOL numbers are not very high at all.
> 2. George W. Bush did not desert ever.
>
> There is plenty not to like about war, and this war in specific,
> without passing on bad information. This stuff is just like
> the allegations that Halliburton was depriving US soldiers
> of water so they were dying of heat prostration.
>
> As Libertarians, we are already perceived as conspiracy theory
> crackpots that will believe and repeat anything.
> Let's not prove the public right.
>
> Bruce Cohen
>
> From: "Acree, Michael"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:40 AM
> Subject: [lpsf-discuss] One way some of us may be able to help
>
> > 5) A new underground railroad
> > Nuvo
> >
> > "Service members know the consequences of going absent without leave
> > (unauthorized absence in the Navy) -- a maximum penalty of five years
> > confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and a dishonorable
> > discharge. The maximum penalty for desertion in a time of war is
> > death. Yet some military personnel are going AWOL or deserting to
> > avoid returning to Iraq. ... 'If everything else fails, people should
> > desert, just as George W. Bush did during the Vietnam War,' [Army
> > veteran Carl Rising-Moore] said. ... Rising-Moore said people all
> > over the country are willing to harbor deserters and help them escape
> > to Canada. ... Rising-Moore is currently in Canada to gather support
> > for what he called the 'Freedom Underground.'" (11/05/03)
> >
> http://www.nuvo.net/archive/2003/11/05/a_new_underground_railroad.html
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > lpsf-discuss-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/2/2003
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> lpsf-discuss-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Dear Dave:
Yes indeed, today is the birthday of the U.S. Marine Corps. I am happy to have served with such an illustrious group.
Leilani

dave barker <dbarker_sfusd@...> wrote:
Leilani,

Semper Fi! Also, from what I remember 21 years ago
while at Parris Island, I believe today is also the
birthday of the Corps. Funny how every detail stays
with us.

Dave Barker

P.S. I also served three years in the US Coast Guard
if anyone wants to discuss my/that perspective of the
"War on Drugs."

Magnifique!
Leilani

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Leilani,

Cool... yes, I got your other email. You sent it to me privately.

<<< Starchild >>>