People give me cogent and fact-based arguments and I still don't listen; do what I want anyway. 
I think we're all looking to develop our enterprise to produce the changes everybody wants but nobody gets. In the time if been on this list, the dialog has moved in that direction. It seems less often there is discussion of the problem and more often there is discussion of how to do things. This will evolve into more projects, committees, working groups, etc.