[LPC County Officers] Discounted (or subsidized) membershipsfor younger libertarians


  What M Carling is talking about would not change anything in that respect. The current way in which someone becomes an Associate Member is by paying dues without signing the pledge, and these Associate Members cannot vote within the party. I have not been aware of any bylaw prohibiting them from speaking at a meeting without unanimous consent, and have asked M to provide a bylaws citation for that. If such a requirement exists, it should be repealed. As noted in my other message, the LPC should not be telling counties who cannot speak (not vote, just SPEAK) during their own proceedings.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

This approach could perhaps bridge the conflicts discussed recently by this list and Brian Holtz regarding the Non-aggression pledge. By not requiring Associate members to sign the pledge, they can participate in the process without risk because they can’t vote.

Something to think about.



From:lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf OfMarcy Berry
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:53 PM
To: lpsf Activist List
Subject: [lpsf-activists] Fw: [LPC County Officers] Discounted (or subsidized) membershipsfor younger libertarians

Forwarding for those not on LPC list; this is especially of interest to our Bylaws Committee.


From:M Carling

To:LPC Officers

Cc:Executive Committee

Sent:Friday, September 23, 2005 9:37 AM

Subject:Re: [LPC County Officers] Discounted (or subsidized) membershipsfor younger libertarians

That's a good question. It's something that we've been thinking
about since the LNC voted to end UMP.

The LPC Bylaws provide for Associate Membership. Per the bylaws,
Associate Members do not have voting rights. Other than that, the
LPC Executive Committee can define the dues and benefits associated
with Associate Membership.

I've been working on a proposal for the November ExCom meeting to
establish lower dues ($10 or $20 per year) for Associate Members.
Per a recent change to the Bylaws, that would be split 60/40 with the
county parties like dues for regular membership. I'm planning to
propose that a valid email address be a condition of Associate
Membership and that California Freedom (which currently costs $10/
year per person) would be sent only electronically (no paper version
at that price).

I've also been considering proposing a Bylaws change that would
permit county parties, if they so chose, to make provision in their
own bylaws that Associate Members could have debating rights within
the county party. In other words, county parties could choose to let
Associate Members speak in favor or against a motion but not vote on
it. (The status quo is that unanimous consent of the body would be
required to let an Associate Member speak.)

This has been on the back burner because our next meeting is still
eight weeks away and we have been deluged with pressing business.
However, since Roberto Liebman has raised the question, I would
appreciate any feedback on the idea.

M Carling
Chairman, LPC Member Acquisition Cmte
Chairman, LPC Bylaws Cmte

> I'm forwarding Roberto's email below.
> Daniel Wiener
> CA_Secretary@LibertarianParty.info
> From: "Roberto Leibman" <roberto@leibman.net>
> To: <countyofficers@ca.lp.org>; "Michael Murphy"
> <mmurphy@smallbusinessman.com>; "Robert Page" <rpagemg@netscape.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 3:51 PM
> Subject: Discounted (or subsidized) memberships for younger
> libertarians
>> Guys,
>> I'm wondering if there's any legal or other ramifications to the
>> following...
>> We are recruiting tons of high school (mostly senior) students
>> through our
>> outreach programs. Students are notoriously low on cash but also
>> notoriously high on energy, commitment, passion and time.
>> Has the LPC considered having a discounted membership price for that
>> particular age group? What we loose in revenues we win in
>> volunteerism,
>> good will and on the long run these same students are more likely
>> to stay
>> with the party as members. The disadvantage to the local
>> organizations is
>> that these kids are not likely to remain in our county if they go to
>> college, but it's obviously a good thing for the LP as a whole.
>> If "youth" memberships aren't on the table any time soon, do you
>> know if
>> there's any problem with the county party subsidizing their
>> membership? We
>> have some extra cash (not much, but enough that a few memberships
>> won't
>> affect us), and if we only have to give our 40% (or I'm confused,
>> is it
>> 60%?) to the LPC these might be awsome recruiting tools.
>> Roberto Leibman
>> Chair, Placer County Libertarian Party
> _______________________________________________
> Executive-Committee mailing list
> Executive-Committee@ca.lp.org
> http://ca.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/executive-committee_ca.lp.org

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I find it odd that you want a bylaw citation rather than a citation of RONR. Now, perhaps you'll be kind enough to show me where in either the Bylaws or RONR someone has debating rights without voting rights. Hint: Everyone who has debating rights also has voting rights and vice versa.

It only take one person to object (by means of a Point of Order) if someone who is not a full member attempts to participate in debate.


Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised (10th ed.) shall be the parliamentary authority for all matters of procedure not specifically covered by these Bylaws.


  As far as I'm concerned, "debating rights" is another word for "free speech." I prefer to see the Libertarian Party allow free speech at its events. In the LP we limit who can vote on the basis of who has signed the pledge, and I support that, but I think anyone ought to be able to speak up and add their two cents at our events. If at some point too many non-members showing up and speaking and members are not getting a chance to speak becomes a problem, I say let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Do you feel me?

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>