The North Bay Libertarian Society will open its meetings at Terrapin Crossroads, in San Rafael, the first week of August.
Possible topic is Snowden&Manning
Possible guest will be Daniel Elsberg and local political figures.
Stay tuned for more info. and after-meeting night-club entertainment options
Interested volunteers, please call
Stay tuned....it will be the day that delivers the most "bang for the buck". Monday Tuesday Wednesday evenings are always easy...it gets complicated beyond that....
Dave and I are moving forward, regardless, to produce the best event we can by August. Having only decided this an hour ago, the details are yet to evolve, Some depend on what interest arises next week. The exact date and time will be decided in two weeks, hinging on the best program we can find by then.
Stay tuned...it will be the day that delivers the best opportunity. Monday Tuesday Wednesday evenings are always easy...it gets complicated after that.
Dave and I are moving forward, regardless, to produce the st event we can by August. Having only decided this time frame and topic an hour ago, the details are yet to evolve. Some depends on what interest develops next week. The exact date and time will be decided in two weeks, hinging on the best program we can put together by then, except as a more complicated scenerio would arise needing specific booking.
I have up to now not said anything about Bradley Manning because I knew my views would be rather unpopular. But I am getting so tired of hearing about him I just have to speak up.
My personal opinion is that he is an idiot and a naïf. Just what did he reveal that people could or should not have known already???
(1) That people die in wars. Certainly anyone who has read any history should already know this.
(2) That innocent civilians often get the worst of it. Again anyone who has read any history should already know this.
(3) That soldiers who see their buddies get killed or wounded sometimes go berserk and kill those not responsible. I knew this long before Manning was even born (I am 66). Two of my uncles served in WWII. I graduated from HS in 1965; five good friends went to Vietnam within 2 years. Many of them admitted to committing what were frankly war crimes out of anger and desire for revenge.
Let's not forget that Manning VOLUNTEERED TO SERVE IN THE MILITARY. Just what did he think he was getting into??? Did he think the army was a branch of the Boy Scouts??? Or did he confuse it with the Salvation Army??? The purpose of the military is to wage wars, to fight battles and yes to kill people. Was he so naïve that he did not understand this???
I really cannot figure out what he did that advanced the cause of liberty one nanometer. I don't really consider him a traitor and don't believe he deserves all the punishment he's getting, but I can't see how he did any good either. If he was uncomfortable being a part of the military, then HE SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED AND GOTTEN OUT OF IT!
Snowden may have a better claim to hero status. But his shocking revelation seems to be the government is spying on us by collecting phone info that tell who called whom. While I am not really pleased about this, I don't see it as a major problem. I am much more worried about things like parcel taxes. This past November the voters of SF (most of whom are not parcel owners) voted to impose on us parcel owners a tax to support City College, that cesspit of financial depravity. Now that this has passed, every bitch and bastard at the public trough is going to be pushing for more parcel taxes. Yet many of the people who come unglued about the phone tracking seem utterly unconcerned about this!
I have met people who lived in Nazi Germany, in Communist East Germany, in the former Soviet Union. These were genuine police states. The US is nothing remotely like this even with the phone tracking. Interestingly many of the countries that Snowden has asked for asylum have much worse records on individual liberty than the US. Yet he has said that he cannot bear to live in a country that collects data on citizen's phone records.
So yer OK with the government's conduct of witch-hunts, torture, and cover-ups.
I never said that at all. I said that Bradley Manning should have known what he was getting into and, therefore, I cannot see how he is some type of hero for exposing what should have been obvious to him.
So what? Those points aren't the issue. I couldn't care less what should have been obvious to Manning.
Government conduct of witch-hunts, torture, and cover-ups is the issue. It just so happens that Manning provided concrete evidence of this conduct by the Kremlin on the Potomac.
If for no other reason than I appreciate the favor, I want him out of prison, now. Then we can discuss how much money the Kremlin wants, to put him back in and keep him there.
I say they get none.
How much money do you want to give them, presumably, cuz things should have been obvious to Manning?
Then we can discuss myriad of other issues defined by this contest. But ultimately, it boils down to whether you want Manning in prison or not. If you want Manning in prison, that's your business. If you don't care about the government conduct of witch-hunts, torture, and cover-ups, that;s your business too.
This is not a debate. It's the launch of the Libertarian Society to achieve specific objectives. If you don't like the objectives, that's your business. You can oppose them if you want. You have lots of company in both war-parties and in the Kremlin.
No, Les' points ARE the issue in the context he has raised. If anyone disagrees with that issue, that is their business. If a disagreement is to be stated on this list, that is fine with me also (as long as it is done civilly and hopefully rationally also).
Indeed a myriad other issues can arise out of the Manning/Snowden cases, and addressing each separately would seem logical to me. Money to the Kremlin to keep Manning in jail, I confess is an issue I had not heard of, but I would be willing to discuss, assuming there is anything concrete to discuss there.
Regarding the objectives of the newly formed "Libertarian Society," I hope the society's members succeed in their efforts. And yes, their objectives are indeed their business, and not necessarily, mine, or Les', or Joe Blow's down the street.
Money to the Kremln(on the Potomac) is always an issue. How much more concrete does it need to be? We don't get to have what it is doing to Manning for free. We pay for it. We don't get the witch-hunts, torture, and cover-ups for free either. We pay for them too.
I think it's an outrage. It may be fine with you. It's good to find out where people stand on things. If they are not on your side, it's hard to get anything done.