Endorsements and Recommendations

My opposition to recommending Fazio for D.A. is not based on the fear
of setting a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I am not an
ideological purist when it comes to recommending candidates who aren't
libertarian but seem to be better than their competitors. I just don't
think Fazio is better than Hallinan.

  Since many of us frankly admit that we will be voting for one or
another of the candidates anyway, the perceived negative of a party
recommendation doesn't have much to do with outcome, only with our
concern over sullying the good name of the LP. I believe we adequately
address this concern by limiting our backing of non-libertarian
candidates to a "recommendation" rather than a whole-hearted
endorsement.

   I strongly suspect that if Hallinan had showed up, he would have
given us sufficient facts to confidently vote the other way. Of course
he bears the blame of not coming or getting in touch with us, but even
those who voted for Fazio apparently agree that this alone is an
insufficient reason for voting the way we did. Since Fazio hasn't held
office, his record is much less visible, making it easier for him to
pick and choose what he tells people unfamiliar with the facts of the
matter (e.g. us) in order to create a positive impression. Someone
wrote that Fazio has always been a trial lawyer. Actually he is a
long-time prosecutor who only recently switched to defense. He did not
say anything to us about switching teams out of disillusionment with
enforcing bad laws or putting people in the slammer; I suspect he
switched either for the prospect of earning more money or to try to
give his resume some balance in order to help him get elected.

  People who know way more about the candidates than we do (media, law
enforcement, etc.) seem to be in agreement that Hallinan is more
concerned with civil liberties than Fazio — and I submit that's what
we're looking for in a District Attorney. Although I can't pull a bunch
of facts and statistics out of my hat without going and researching it
(which seems like a marginal use of time after we've voted), I have
some confidence in my general impressions based on years of reading the
local papers. I think we're unwise to dismiss all the conventional
wisdom merely on the basis of a short personal appearance where the
candidate refused to make any promises.

Yours in liberty,
              <<< Starchild >>>

Of course you have our support, Mike. The vote was official, and
there's no
such thing as an email or phone based recall of the recommendation.
As far as
you and Fazio should be concerned, the recommendation vote was
unanimous.
There's no such category as "recommended with reservations", as that
would be
sort of like "a little pregnant". Go ahead with your political
maneuvering,
because I think the possibility of increasing the influence of both
your
campaign and the LPSF may be the only bright spot in this entire mess.

I'm really not so concerned about Fazio getting into the D.A.'s
office. I may
still personally vote for him, in fact. What I am concerned about is
setting
a precedent for future endorsement meetings. I think it's a good
thing that
our party rarely lowers the bar to endorse a major party candidate. I
think
Ron Paul and Maad really ought to be the only rare exceptions to the
rule. We
aren't exchanging our support of them for a change in their policies.
If I
honestly believed that it was possible to barter support for
influence, I'd be
a Log Cabin Republican. But I just don't believe that such
arrangements ever
benefit the group compromising its principles, though they always
benefit the
politician making the promises.

At least I do feel better knowing that Fazio squeezing in with a
recommendation from us was clearly a fluke due to Starchild not being
present
for an endorsement vote (though he's usually late to meetings, the
endorsements are always at the end, after he's arrived). In fact, had
the one
abstention voted "no recommendation", things would have been
different, as
well.

Don't worry, Mike. We'll all still be there tonight cheering you on.
You'll
notice we kept this whole thing to the activists list, because we
don't want
anyone outside to think we're at all wavering in our support for you.
Just
don't you and Sarosh get used to political chess playing such a big
factor in
future endorsement meetings. All us ideological hardasses will be
mobilizing
for the next one.

:slight_smile:

--
Rob Power
http://www.robpower.com

Mike Denny said:

Dear All,

I deeply regret the contention over this issue. And I thank those who
trusted
that we in the LP will do whatever I can with a difficult situation.
Life is
little more than an experiment in my opinion. Insanity is doing the
same thing
over and over expecting a different result. I realize we are taking a
chance
here by trying something new. As an initiator of this, I'm prepared
to give it
a shot on behalf of the LPSF. If I am wrong, I will take the
responsibility
and eat crow.

Those who object have now made their points very clear. I respect
what they
have said and will excercize all the caution and effort that I am
capable of
to make this turn out well. But I ask for your support. If I have to
fight my
friends over this, it's not worth it to me. You can all change your
minds on
this if you want and call Bill Faxio and tell him you changed your
minds.
Believe me, it will be much easier for me. And right about now, easy
sounds
real good.

Mike

Mike

  From: Leilani Wright [mailto:plantagenetregina1157@yahoo.com]
  Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 9:40 AM
  To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
  Cc:
  Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations

  Hello friends in Liberty:
  I must say that Rob expressed perfectly my feelings about the
Hallinan/Fazio
debacle.
  I stand firm behind my conviction that the "lesser of two evils," is
still
evil. When the Libertarians, as Rob again expressed so eloquently,
"I'm just
disappointed that we're playing the same political
        games that make the Democrats and Republicans the fine parties
they
        are. I guess I just need to learn that it's not what you say
or what
        you do, but rather who you know and who owes you a favor."
  this is extremely un-fortunate.
  Leilani

    Rob....that's not what I was saying. I said that the choice between
Hallinan
and Fazio was not an easy one for Libertarians because they both had
their
baggage. I'm certainly not prioritizing illegals over drugs and sex
workers.
I was simply defining the differences between the candidates, not
pretty in
either case.

    I'm just out here working in the political muck trying to make a
difference.
It's not pretty. But in my opinion, this is where the battle is. I
won't be
here much longer. Those who think they can do a better job can come
on in
and demonstrate what they can do. In the meantime, I will be working
on
Fazio. The "no recommendation" crowd can work with "nobody" or
anybody else
as they are free to do.

    Mike

          From: Rob Power [mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
          Sent: Wed 9/17/2003 12:49 AM
          To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
          Cc:
          Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations

          -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
          Hash: SHA1

          Okey doke. Glad we cleared that up. As long as it's just
those
          stinkin' illegals who are going to be screwed, I guess it's
not our
          problem. At least we'll have our sex and drugs. And a favor
to call
          in with the new D.A. to boot!

          This thread makes me very sad. Just like Chris, my only
internal
          debate was between Fazio and No Recommendation, but I just
assumed
          that the Fazio supporters were thinking about the same things
as I
          was ("he sounds libertarian, but is he sincere?"). I was
horribly,
          horribly wrong about that and wish I hadn't asked why peopole
voted
          the way they did. I never expected to see "illegals taking
advantage
          of the welfare state" and "realpolitik" as justification for
          Saturday's vote. I'm going to go drink something and hope I
forget
          this debate. Mmm... Baileys on ice. Forgetting already....
:slight_smile:

          - -----Original Message-----
          From: Mike Denny [mailto:mike@drinksusa.com]
          Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:08 PM
          To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations

          OK Rob, let's just recommend Fazio to punish the others for
not
          bothering to show up at our meeting. I can accept that. And
it is
          standard operating proceedure in politics. By the way, did we
          recommend Tony Hall? And we didn't recommend Matt Gonzales if
my
          memory serves me well. So let's see if this makes a
difference. Matt
          did say he agreed with me on the campaign about the payroll
tax. And
          we've been cordial despite our differences. Tony's been open
to me
          also and says he would have changed his position on the Small
          Business Commission if I had spoken openly earlier, something
I
          didn't do. So to have the opportunity to engage in the
discussion is
          often about as good as it gets in politics.

          By the way, the real issue as I see it between Fazio and
Hallinan is
          that the former would crack down on illegal immigrants whereas
          Hallinan would not. One candidate would work to get rid of
illegals
          taking advantage of the welfare state whereas the other would
support
          their right to do that in the name of personal freedom....not
much of
          a choice for a Libertarian if you asked me. So not much of a
clear
          ideological choice either way. I think sex and drugs are
pretty safe
          in SF for now under either Hallinan or Fazio. I don't expect
to see
          much change there.

          Mike

          - -----Original Message-----
          From: Rob Power [mailto:robpower@robpower.com]
          Sent: Tue 9/16/2003 10:48 PM
          To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
          Cc:
          Subject: RE: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations

          *** PGP Signature Status: bad
          *** Signer: Rob Power <robpower@robpower.com>
          *** Signed: 9/16/2003 10:47:02 PM
          *** Verified: 9/16/2003 11:46:43 PM
          *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***

          Both Tony Hall and Matt Gonzales have "given us the time of
day".
          Would the LPSF recommend that our membership vote for them?
If so,
          well, then I'm just out of touch. If not, then why lower the
bar for
          Fazio?

          Also, as I recall, there were candidates in the previous
election who
          could "talk the talk" when in front of our libertarian
audience, but
          we didn't believe they were sincere. We decided that it was
better
          to make no recommendation. Again, why are we giving Fazio the
          benefit of the doubt?

          If the main justification for recommending Fazio was to
punish the
          others for not bothering to show up at our meeting, then
let's just
          say that. There's nothing wrong with honesty. But let's not
set a
          precedent of being so desperate for attention that we'll
recommend
          anyone who bothers to show up and say what we want to hear,
          regardless of that person's past job performance.

          Unlike Starchild, I'm not yet "embarrassed" about the Fazio
          recommendation, but I fear that I'll be embarrassed about it
a few
          months after he's elected. That would be when we see an
          unprecedented increase in convictions for drug and sex
"crimes". For
          now, I'm just disappointed that we're playing the same
political
          games that make the Democrats and Republicans the fine
parties they
          are. I guess I just need to learn that it's not what you say
or what
          you do, but rather who you know and who owes you a favor.

          :-(

          - -----Original Message-----
          From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:crism@maden.org]
          Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 PM
          To: lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [lpsf-activists] Endorsements and Recommendations

          *** PGP Signature Status: good
          *** Signer: Christopher R. Maden <crism@maden.org>
          *** Signed: 9/16/2003 9:35:38 PM
          *** Verified: 9/16/2003 10:07:32 PM
          *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***

          >I did my best, Starchild. The consensus of the group,
however, was
          >that reducing violent crime was more important than the
libertarian
          >stance on victimless crimes.
          >
          >I was a disappointed by that vote, as well.

          I wouldn't have put it that way. My feeling is that (a)
Fazio gave
          us the
          time of day, which is certainly not sufficient, but is a
start (our
          bylaws
          preclude us from recommending anyone who doesn't respond to
the
          invitation
          unless we make a specific exception); and (b) Fazio talks
          libertarian, but
          needs education on what constitutes a harm and what
constitutes an
          inconvenience.

          He is not an ideal candidate, but Hallinan does not appear to
walk
          the walk
          either, and his clumsy politicking grates. I was only
deciding,
          myself,
          between Fazio and no recommendation.

          ~Chris
          - --
          Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing
evils, as
          distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them
with
          others.
          ~Ambrose Bierce / Freelance text nerd: <URL:
http://crism.maden.org/
          <http://crism.maden.org/>
          >
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