Ballot Initiatives

Mike and all,...

Getting the thing written is an intimidating tassk.Does anybody have
the curb rights book I can borrow. Tomorrow I will call Reason, order
ASAP and find out how to contact the book's authors.
I will also call PLF and ask for help and advice…
Who has helped us in the pst? Can it be amended once we start getting
petitions???
As for your assertion that it has to be 100 percent government
free,Mike, I am open to discussion. In my initial proposal I said the
perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and existing regulations
regarding vehicle safety and driver safety wo;uld be largely adopted
within reason. We will have to study these regs to avoid having the
regulators destroy the whole initiaive. You are correct that the
market could demand safe drivers and vehicles, if that is what the
consuming public insisted on. But I think just moving in a giant step
towards opening up this market is valuable, and making a free market
arguement as regards public safery in this town is a non starter. What
we ere talking about here is something that is not a bus and not a
cab, but compliments both and may improve both's business by getting
more people out of cars. We will be heavily attacked by the entrenched
Muni Union and Cab cartel. We will need allies and I think we can make
them.

OT... got a little busy the last day on getting the place in order for
my xwifeproomates brief stopover between a snowboard trip inCanada and
her job in Arkansas. We had fun, took the dog for a long walk and I
made a fnatastic shrimp scampi, ;ast cjamce for tiger shrimp before
they impose a quota...had a redo of my nuclear heart and stress test
yesterday. Not good. It appears all my efforts of diet and exercise
can't overcome the problems from my HIV drugs. She put me on
nitroglycerin as needed and will tell me more next week.. Is this too
much information.test

--- In lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Michael R. Edelstein"
<dredelstein@t...> wrote:

Phil,

I would endorse either one, assuming each is worded in such a way as
to clearly remove Govt-- lock, stock, and barrel--from each
enterprise.

Do you have a sample wording of each?

Please forgive me if the wording has been posted previously--I simply
do not have time to read all lpsf-activist postings. As Vice-chair, I
assume you're in the process of inventing a 36-hour day, at which
point I'll stay on top of all lpsf emails!

Best, Michael

From: "ricochetboy" <philzberg@e...>
To: <lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: [lpsf-activists] Re: Ballot Initiatives

>
>
> I suggest we narrow the list now to one primary initiative
> either...Marijauan
> or.......Curb rights
>
> Then once that is decided, we can talk about adding the Feneva
> Convention resolution.
>
> Any objections...
>
> Come on folks out there lets here from you. We gotta get moving.
> -
>
>
>
> -- In lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@e...>
> wrote:
>>
>> >> Starchild wrote:
>> >>> This is a big project. If we don't adopt some kind of voting
>> >>> method
>> >>> weighted by contributions, are people going to do the work?
>> >
>> > And if we do, are people going to do the work or just say they
>> > will to
>> > get their way?
>> >
>> > -- Steve
>>
>> I feel like our group is small and honorable enough that we could
>> trust people to fulfill pledges, but if someone wants to come up
>> with
>> some kind of enforcement mechanism rather than relying on the honor
>> system, that's OK by me.
>>
>> If it seems like there is adequate interest in gathering signatures
>> or
>> contributing money without any extra incentives, that's even
>> better. I
>> have mixed feelings myself about introducing any kind of weighted
>> voting system for making decisions -- I'm just concerned that we
>> set
>> goals for ourselves such that we will gather the signatures
>> necessary
>> to succeed.
>>
>> Some ballpark figures: We have perhaps about 20 core activists. If
>> each of us commit to getting 500 valid signatures (say 750 raw
>> signatures, assuming a 66% validity rate, which seems reasonable)
>> between now and July 11, that would put us in the ballpark of the
>> 10,486 valid signatures we'll need. In other words, about 125
>> signatures per person per month for six months. Going rate for a
>> signature is, I'm guessing, around $3 counting overhead. So I'd
>> suggest
>> using that as the contribution equivalent, i.e. the equivalent of
>> 500
>> valid signatures would be $1500 for those who would rather
>> contribute
>> cash. Any combination of signatures and cash would be fine too.
>>
>> This may sound intimidating, and it probably should. But each of us
>> should also be out there trying to network and find other people to
>> circulate petitions for us or donate money to the effort, which we
>> could use toward our individual goals of 500 valid signatures or
>> the
>> cash equivalent each. If you are saying to yourself, "I'm not going
>> to
>> pledge $1500 or the equivalent in work-hours to the LPSF this
>> year!"
>> that's OK -- as long as you don't have much company! If too many of
>> us
>> are saying that to ourselves, then the effort is in jeopardy unless
>> we
>> figure out better incentives. Weighted voting was simply one idea I
>> had
>> for an incentive.
>>
>> Now if we pick an issue like marijuana which already has a strong
>> constituency, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that
>> non-Libertarians will gather a substantial percentage of the
>> signatures
>> we need -- maybe more than half. But we shouldn't sit back and
>> count on
>> that. As the leading organization promoting this measure, we'll
>> need to
>> promote it, and coordinate efforts by non-Libertarian signature
>> gatherers as well as our own efforts, in order to make sure that
>> we're
>> progressing at an adequate rate toward the signature total we'll
>> have
>> to turn in on or before July 11.
>>
>> Yours in liberty,
>> <<< Starchild >>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Regarding timing, and procedures.

It is my understanding that the executive
committrr will decide on which initiative to do at the nect meeting
based on imput from this board. We need more input. My question for
those withmore experience than I, is it better to grab the bull by the
hoens and run with tis curb rights now, of should we make a commitment
to it now and spend more time perfecting the proposal, building a
coalition, and raising money. Wspecially in light of the fact that the
marijauana initiative is pre made and has a built in coalition. Or is
mid January jast the right time to start and the only way stuff gets
done is with tight deadlines???

--- In lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com, "ricochetboy" <philzberg@e...>
wrote:

Mike and all,...

Getting the thing written is an intimidating tassk.Does anybody have
the curb rights book I can borrow. Tomorrow I will call Reason, order
ASAP and find out how to contact the book's authors.
I will also call PLF and ask for help and advice…
Who has helped us in the pst? Can it be amended once we start getting
petitions???
As for your assertion that it has to be 100 percent government
free,Mike, I am open to discussion. In my initial proposal I said the
perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and existing regulations
regarding vehicle safety and driver safety wo;uld be largely adopted
within reason. We will have to study these regs to avoid having the
regulators destroy the whole initiaive. You are correct that the
market could demand safe drivers and vehicles, if that is what the
consuming public insisted on. But I think just moving in a giant step
towards opening up this market is valuable, and making a free market
arguement as regards public safery in this town is a non starter. What
we ere talking about here is something that is not a bus and not a
cab, but compliments both and may improve both's business by getting
more people out of cars. We will be heavily attacked by the entrenched
Muni Union and Cab cartel. We will need allies and I think we can make
them.

OT... got a little busy the last day on getting the place in order for
my xwifeproomates brief stopover between a snowboard trip inCanada and
her job in Arkansas. We had fun, took the dog for a long walk and I
made a fnatastic shrimp scampi, ;ast cjamce for tiger shrimp before
they impose a quota...had a redo of my nuclear heart and stress test
yesterday. Not good. It appears all my efforts of diet and exercise
can't overcome the problems from my HIV drugs. She put me on
nitroglycerin as needed and will tell me more next week.. Is this too
much information.test

--- In lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Michael R. Edelstein"
<dredelstein@t...> wrote:
> Phil,
>
> I would endorse either one, assuming each is worded in such a way as
> to clearly remove Govt-- lock, stock, and barrel--from each
> enterprise.
>
> Do you have a sample wording of each?
>
> Please forgive me if the wording has been posted previously--I simply
> do not have time to read all lpsf-activist postings. As Vice-chair, I
> assume you're in the process of inventing a 36-hour day, at which
> point I'll stay on top of all lpsf emails!
>
> Best, Michael
>
> From: "ricochetboy" <philzberg@e...>
> To: <lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:42 PM
> Subject: [lpsf-activists] Re: Ballot Initiatives
>
>
> >
> >
> > I suggest we narrow the list now to one primary initiative
> > either...Marijauan
> > or.......Curb rights
> >
> > Then once that is decided, we can talk about adding the Feneva
> > Convention resolution.
> >
> > Any objections...
> >
> > Come on folks out there lets here from you. We gotta get moving.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In lpsf-activists@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@e...>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Starchild wrote:
> >> >>> This is a big project. If we don't adopt some kind of voting
> >> >>> method
> >> >>> weighted by contributions, are people going to do the work?
> >> >
> >> > And if we do, are people going to do the work or just say they
> >> > will to
> >> > get their way?
> >> >
> >> > -- Steve
> >>
> >> I feel like our group is small and honorable enough that we could
> >> trust people to fulfill pledges, but if someone wants to come up
> >> with
> >> some kind of enforcement mechanism rather than relying on the honor
> >> system, that's OK by me.
> >>
> >> If it seems like there is adequate interest in gathering

signatures

> >> or
> >> contributing money without any extra incentives, that's even
> >> better. I
> >> have mixed feelings myself about introducing any kind of weighted
> >> voting system for making decisions -- I'm just concerned that we
> >> set
> >> goals for ourselves such that we will gather the signatures
> >> necessary
> >> to succeed.
> >>
> >> Some ballpark figures: We have perhaps about 20 core activists. If
> >> each of us commit to getting 500 valid signatures (say 750 raw
> >> signatures, assuming a 66% validity rate, which seems reasonable)
> >> between now and July 11, that would put us in the ballpark of the
> >> 10,486 valid signatures we'll need. In other words, about 125
> >> signatures per person per month for six months. Going rate for a
> >> signature is, I'm guessing, around $3 counting overhead. So I'd
> >> suggest
> >> using that as the contribution equivalent, i.e. the equivalent of
> >> 500
> >> valid signatures would be $1500 for those who would rather
> >> contribute
> >> cash. Any combination of signatures and cash would be fine too.
> >>
> >> This may sound intimidating, and it probably should. But each of us
> >> should also be out there trying to network and find other people to
> >> circulate petitions for us or donate money to the effort, which we
> >> could use toward our individual goals of 500 valid signatures or
> >> the
> >> cash equivalent each. If you are saying to yourself, "I'm not

going

> >> to
> >> pledge $1500 or the equivalent in work-hours to the LPSF this
> >> year!"
> >> that's OK -- as long as you don't have much company! If too

many of

> >> us
> >> are saying that to ourselves, then the effort is in jeopardy

unless

> >> we
> >> figure out better incentives. Weighted voting was simply one

idea I

> >> had
> >> for an incentive.
> >>
> >> Now if we pick an issue like marijuana which already has a strong
> >> constituency, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that
> >> non-Libertarians will gather a substantial percentage of the
> >> signatures
> >> we need -- maybe more than half. But we shouldn't sit back and
> >> count on
> >> that. As the leading organization promoting this measure, we'll
> >> need to
> >> promote it, and coordinate efforts by non-Libertarian signature
> >> gatherers as well as our own efforts, in order to make sure that
> >> we're
> >> progressing at an adequate rate toward the signature total we'll
> >> have
> >> to turn in on or before July 11.
> >>
> >> Yours in liberty,
> >> <<< Starchild >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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