Badnarik article

http://www.libertyunbound.com/

-- Steve

Dear Steve or Anyone Else;

Is the article correct about Badnarik's not filing tax returns??? If so, whoever knows Badnarik well enough needs to make absolutely certain he does get all those missing tax returns filed immediately.

If he owed taxes on the returns he did not file he is literally facing criminal prosecution on non-filing charges and income tax evasion. That is not a joke. I work for a tax attorney and I speak from knowledge of what the IRS does to non-return filers. They are called show case trials. And are designed to be a lesson to those who have not filed to get filed. And the quicker the better.

As a presidential candidate for a minority party he is a primetime candidate for criminal prosecution as a showcase trail. If a Special Agent of the IRS talks with Badnarik about his missing tax returns I can guarantee Michael is under criminal investigation.

For the record the sequence of events is 1. Letter from the IRS. 2. Letter from Taxpayer Representative 3. A call or visit from a Revenue Agent. 4. A visit from a Special Agent.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

Steve Dekorte <steve@...> wrote:

http://www.libertyunbound.com/

-- Steve

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Ron,

I don't know. I just saw that article on another mailing list and thought it would be of interest. You might try sending Badnarik and email(?)

-- Steve

Michael Badnarik does not "owe" taxes. Free people do not "owe" anything to government. Government "wants to collect" a particular amount from him. Anyone willing to take the risk of defying the immoral and possibly illegal collection of income taxes deserves our appreciation and gratitude.

        <<< Starchild >>>

Here we go again. If we are not turning blue, we are spitting in
someone's face, or running away from prosecusion (I am thinking of
one of our earlier presidential hopefuls). It is all well and good
to have lofty ideals, such as refusing to pay income tax; but what is
the point of running for public office, when you know the opposition
(if they bother to take you seriously at all) will use your breaking
the law to knock you out of the race. The law is the law; if you
don't like it work to change it via the ballot box.

Thanks to Mike Denny for the great article on "clothes make the man;"
but it looks to me that should the Badnarik ariticle on taxes be true
(and I hope it is not), we need to change not only the way we dress,
but also the way we view what constitutes a viable political party.

Marcy

  Michael Badnarik does not "owe" taxes. Free people do

not "owe"

anything to government. Government "wants to collect" a particular
amount from him. Anyone willing to take the risk of defying the

immoral

and possibly illegal collection of income taxes deserves our
appreciation and gratitude.

        <<< Starchild >>>

> Dear Steve or Anyone Else;
>
> Is the article correct about Badnarik's not filing tax returns???

If

> so, whoever knows Badnarik well enough needs to make absolutely
> certain he does get all those missing tax returns filed

immediately.

>
> If he owed taxes on the returns he did not file he is

literally facing

> criminal prosecution on non-filing charges and income tax

evasion.

> That is not a joke. I work for a tax attorney and I speak from
> knowledge of what the IRS does to non-return filers. They are

called

> show case trials. And are designed to be a lesson to those who

have

> not filed to get filed. And the quicker the better.
>
> As a presidential candidate for a minority party he is a

primetime

> candidate for criminal prosecution as a showcase trail. If a

Special

> Agent of the IRS talks with Badnarik about his missing tax

returns I

> can guarantee Michael is under criminal investigation.
>
> For the record the sequence of events is 1. Letter from the IRS.

2.

> Letter from Taxpayer Representative 3. A call or visit from a

Revenue

Dear Starchild;

Yes your right. Yet how can Michael campaign for President of the US from a prison cell?

Michael Badnarik is not a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who could write a Letter From a Birmingham Jail. Not to mention the free publicity the Libertarian Party as a whole would get from the tax protest. However, one of the questions asked of all three of the candidates for the nomination was: is their anything in your past which could embarass the Libertarian party?

Getting arrested for willful income tax invasion has nothing to do with whether or not you "owe". And whether or not the necessary 3/4's majority of states really endorsed the Amendment to collect taxes. Until all income tax laws are repealed he along with the rest of us are stuck. And a presidential candidate under federal prosecution for willfully not filing income tax returns is not helping the Libertarian party. No matter how you feel about having to pay taxes.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:
Michael Badnarik does not "owe" taxes. Free people do not "owe"
anything to government. Government "wants to collect" a particular
amount from him. Anyone willing to take the risk of defying the immoral
and possibly illegal collection of income taxes deserves our
appreciation and gratitude.

<<< Starchild >>>

Marcy,

  Michael isn't *running away* from prosecution ("persecution" might be a better term, since "prosecution" could imply a valid legal authority), he's campaigning normally.

  As for the opposition using a scandal to knock someone out of the race, I don't see how this could happen without a candidate being well enough known so that a public backlash against him would have some effect. If they want to make Michael better known so that they can employ this strategy, I say bring it on!

  I think I agree with the people who were advising Michael to let the IRS come after him and let the chips fall where they may. My guess is they would not want to go after him, at least until after the election, because it would just give the whole tax protest movement more visibility. It's a different game than going after a tax evader who doesn't question the legitimacy of the whole operation.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

Dear Starchild;

Yes your right. Yet how can Michael campaign for President of the US from a prison cell?

  Leonard Peltier is doing it. Wouldn't it be telling if most of the alternative party candidates in the United States were running for office from prison? 8)

Michael Badnarik is not a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who could write a Letter From a Birmingham Jail.

  How do we know who the next Martin Luther King will be?

Not to mention the free publicity the Libertarian Party as a whole would get from the tax protest. However, one of the questions asked of all three of the candidates for the nomination was: is their anything in your past which could embarass the Libertarian party?

  I'd have to see the exact wording of the question and his answer.

Getting arrested for willful income tax invasion has nothing to do with whether or not you "owe".

  Well, if you don't owe money, what grounds are there for arrest? Isn't filing voluntary?

And whether or not the necessary 3/4's majority of states really endorsed the Amendment to collect taxes. Until all income tax laws are repealed he along with the rest of us are stuck.

  Not necessarily -- many laws on the books are not enforced. Many people simply refuse to comply with laws that are on the books, such as the requirement to register for Selective Service.

And a presidential candidate under federal prosecution for willfully not filing income tax returns is not helping the Libertarian party. No matter how you feel about having to pay taxes.

  You could be right that it is a net negative in terms of getting votes, although that seems far from certain. But I think we ought to honor and respect his actions as those of a hero regardless of what the public thinks.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

Dear Starchild;

More people are aware of who Leonard Peltier is and the American Indian Movement than who Michael Badnarik is and the Libertarian Party. ( Sad to say )

The next Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. will be someone whose inner mettle and metal gets forged in the revolutionary conflict to stop all egregious abuses of civil liberties and civil rights. Someone who speaks from the heart with a loud voice for those who have been trodden under without any voice or even anyone willing to listen to them. Someone who is willing to be a target for those whose are the abusers by fiat or dictate of anyone who dares oppose or speak out aginst the abuses. Someone who steps forward, stands tall and leads from the front. Someone who will fight against those who would use the powers of the US Constitution enacted by the States and We The People to force submission to a new regal imperial tyranny and the enslavement of a free peoples.

Filing an income tax return is not voluntary it is mandatory. Wilfully not filing even a single year could result in criminal prosecution. It becomes even more serious if taxes were due for the year in question.

Yes many laws on the books are not enforced. Income tax evasion is a law which is enforced.

Michael Badnarik may be a hero for refusing to file and pay income taxes. That we should honor and respect his position goes without saying. But ignoring what the public thinks can not be ignored. Those are the people you are asking to vote for you and your candidacy for the President of the US.

Stop and think what the position of President of the US entails. The responsibilities are awesome. If someone is serious about becoming the President of the US then act like a President of the US would act. Being a jail house tax protestor is not one of the endearing charms for someone who is serious about becoming President of the US.

How serious is Michael Badnarik about truly wanting to be President of the US?

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

P.S. The scene in the movie Treasure of Sierra Madre is when the bandit gang confronts the gold miners after they have mined a fair amount of placer gold. And El Jefe of the Banditos says: " Taxes! I don't got no steenkin' taxes. I don't need no steenkin" taxes."

Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:

Dear Starchild;

Yes your right. Yet how can Michael campaign for President of the US
from a prison cell?

Leonard Peltier is doing it. Wouldn't it be telling if most of the
alternative party candidates in the United States were running for
office from prison? 8)

Michael Badnarik is not a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who could write a
Letter From a Birmingham Jail.

How do we know who the next Martin Luther King will be?

Not to mention the free publicity the Libertarian Party as a whole
would get from the tax protest. However, one of the questions asked of
all three of the candidates for the nomination was: is their anything
in your past which could embarrass the Libertarian party?

I'd have to see the exact wording of the question and his answer.

Getting arrested for willful income tax invasion has nothing to do
with whether or not you "owe".

Well, if you don't owe money, what grounds are there for arrest? Isn't
filing voluntary?

And whether or not the necessary 3/4's majority of states really
endorsed the Amendment to collect taxes. Until all income tax laws are
repealed he along with the rest of us are stuck.

Not necessarily -- many laws on the books are not enforced. Many
people simply refuse to comply with laws that are on the books, such as
the requirement to register for Selective Service.

And a presidential candidate under federal prosecution for willfully
not filing income tax returns is not helping the Libertarian party.
No matter how you feel about having to pay taxes.

You could be right that it is a net negative in terms of getting
votes, although that seems far from certain. But I think we ought to
honor and respect his actions as those of a hero regardless of what the
public thinks.

Yours in liberty,
<<< Starchild >>>

Starchild,

1. Prosecution is what I meant, and I specifically said I was
thinking of an earlear candidate (not Michael); we old timers
remember Moreau. And yes, you are correct that a candidate needs to
be "well enough known" (i.e., "taken seriously" were my words) for a
confrontation to occur...and I do not mean well enough known because
the press ran with the headlines "Presidential hopeful arrested for
tax evasion." Anyway, I believe one needs to choose between being a
candidate for public office or being a maverick on the edges of the
law. Or, as Rob commented, being Rosa Parks (a courageous private
citizen not running for office).

2. By the way, even if the article is true, not filing tax returns
is not necessarily against the law, since there is an earnings
threshold below which you need not file.

Marcy

Marcy,

  Michael isn't *running away* from prosecution ("persecution"

might be

a better term, since "prosecution" could imply a valid legal
authority), he's campaigning normally.

  As for the opposition using a scandal to knock someone out of

the

race, I don't see how this could happen without a candidate being

well

enough known so that a public backlash against him would have some
effect. If they want to make Michael better known so that they can
employ this strategy, I say bring it on!

  I think I agree with the people who were advising Michael to

let the

IRS come after him and let the chips fall where they may. My guess

is

they would not want to go after him, at least until after the

election,

because it would just give the whole tax protest movement more
visibility. It's a different game than going after a tax evader who
doesn't question the legitimacy of the whole operation.

Yours in liberty,
        <<< Starchild >>>

> Here we go again. If we are not turning blue, we are spitting in
> someone's face, or running away from prosecusion (I am thinking of
> one of our earlier presidential hopefuls). It is all well and

good

> to have lofty ideals, such as refusing to pay income tax; but

what is

> the point of running for public office, when you know the

opposition

> (if they bother to take you seriously at all) will use your

breaking

> the law to knock you out of the race. The law is the law; if you
> don't like it work to change it via the ballot box.
>
> Thanks to Mike Denny for the great article on "clothes make the

man;"

> but it looks to me that should the Badnarik ariticle on taxes be

true

> (and I hope it is not), we need to change not only the way we

dress,

> but also the way we view what constitutes a viable political

party.

>
>
> Marcy
>
>
>
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@e...>

wrote:

>> Michael Badnarik does not "owe" taxes. Free people do
> not "owe"
>> anything to government. Government "wants to collect" a

particular

>> amount from him. Anyone willing to take the risk of defying the
> immoral
>> and possibly illegal collection of income taxes deserves our
>> appreciation and gratitude.
>>
>> <<< Starchild >>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dear Steve or Anyone Else;
>>>
>>> Is the article correct about Badnarik's not filing tax

returns???

Dear Marcy;

The earnings threshold is $600 and I'm guessing Michael Badnarik made at least that much in any given year for which he got either a W-2 or a 1099 miscelleanous income statement form. And the IRS in its infinite wisdom has a special tax form for those who did not make any income so they can file a no-income statement form.

Ron Getty
SF Libertarian

"Amarcy D. Berry" <amarcyb@...> wrote:
Starchild,

1. Prosecution is what I meant, and I specifically said I was
thinking of an earlear candidate (not Michael); we old timers
remember Moreau. And yes, you are correct that a candidate needs to
be "well enough known" (i.e., "taken seriously" were my words) for a
confrontation to occur...and I do not mean well enough known because
the press ran with the headlines "Presidential hopeful arrested for
tax evasion." Anyway, I believe one needs to choose between being a
candidate for public office or being a maverick on the edges of the
law. Or, as Rob commented, being Rosa Parks (a courageous private
citizen not running for office).

2. By the way, even if the article is true, not filing tax returns
is not necessarily against the law, since there is an earnings
threshold below which you need not file.

Marcy

Marcy,

      Michael isn't *running away* from prosecution ("persecution"

might be

a better term, since "prosecution" could imply a valid legal
authority), he's campaigning normally.

      As for the opposition using a scandal to knock someone out of

the

race, I don't see how this could happen without a candidate being

well

enough known so that a public backlash against him would have some
effect. If they want to make Michael better known so that they can
employ this strategy, I say bring it on!

      I think I agree with the people who were advising Michael to

let the

IRS come after him and let the chips fall where they may. My guess

is

they would not want to go after him, at least until after the

election,

because it would just give the whole tax protest movement more
visibility. It's a different game than going after a tax evader who
doesn't question the legitimacy of the whole operation.

Yours in liberty,
                        <<< Starchild >>>

> Here we go again. If we are not turning blue, we are spitting in
> someone's face, or running away from prosecusion (I am thinking of
> one of our earlier presidential hopefuls). It is all well and

good

> to have lofty ideals, such as refusing to pay income tax; but

what is

> the point of running for public office, when you know the

opposition

> (if they bother to take you seriously at all) will use your

breaking

> the law to knock you out of the race. The law is the law; if you
> don't like it work to change it via the ballot box.
>
> Thanks to Mike Denny for the great article on "clothes make the

man;"

> but it looks to me that should the Badnarik ariticle on taxes be

true

> (and I hope it is not), we need to change not only the way we

dress,

> but also the way we view what constitutes a viable political

party.

>
>
> Marcy
>
>
>
>
> --- In lpsf-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@e...>

wrote:

>> Michael Badnarik does not "owe" taxes. Free people do
> not "owe"
>> anything to government. Government "wants to collect" a

particular

>> amount from him. Anyone willing to take the risk of defying the
> immoral
>> and possibly illegal collection of income taxes deserves our
>> appreciation and gratitude.
>>
>> <<< Starchild >>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dear Steve or Anyone Else;
>>>
>>> Is the article correct about Badnarik's not filing tax

returns???

> If
>>> so, whoever knows Badnarik well enough needs to make absolutely
>>> certain he does get all those missing tax returns filed
> immediately.
>>>
>>> If he owed taxes on the returns he did not file he is
> literally facing
>>> criminal prosecution on non-filing charges and income tax
> evasion.
>>> That is not a joke. I work for a tax attorney and I speak from
>>> knowledge of what the IRS does to non-return filers. They are
> called
>>> show case trials. And are designed to be a lesson to those who
> have
>>> not filed to get filed. And the quicker the better.
>>>
>>> As a presidential candidate for a minority party he is a
> primetime
>>> candidate for criminal prosecution as a showcase trail. If a
> Special
>>> Agent of the IRS talks with Badnarik about his missing tax
> returns I
>>> can guarantee Michael is under criminal investigation.
>>>
>>> For the record the sequence of events is 1. Letter from the IRS.
> 2.
>>> Letter from Taxpayer Representative 3. A call or visit from a
> Revenue
>>> Agent. 4. A visit from a Special Agent.
>>>
>>> Ron Getty
>>> SF Libertarian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Dekorte <steve@d...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.libertyunbound.com/
>>>
>>> -- Steve
>
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