An Alternative Theory To What Causes HIV and Cancer

Dear Everyone;
   
  A most interesting article describing a methodology to what causes HIV as expostulated by a very experienced award winning microbiologist. The article writer also takes pokes at how government grant research science funding follows the established company line or else you are verboten to receive funds if your theory is considered crack pot. Even if your theory has some very solid and extensive scientific testing to back it up.
   
  It an interesting theory and is not too deeply written to understand from the laymans point of view. Check it out.
   
  http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller18.html
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian

"They hypothesize that AIDS is caused by three things, singly or in combination: 1) long-term, heavy-duty recreational drug use – cocaine, amphetamines, heroin, and nitrite inhalants; 2) antiretroviral drugs doctors prescribe to people who are HIV positive – DNA chain terminators, like AZT, and protease inhibitors; and 3) malnutrition and bad water, which is the cause of "AIDS" in Africa."

It seems curious to me that 2 of these supposed causes existed long before the AIDS epidemic and the third only after AIDS was recognized.

-- Steve

Ron Getty wrote:

  A most interesting article describing a methodology to what causes HIV
as expostulated by a very experienced award winning microbiologist.

Duesberg is a crank.

His ideas were viable twenty years ago, but all of his predictions about
the spread of AIDS have been proven false. (Note, in particular, that
your summary is wrong - his major premise is that HIV does not cause
AIDS.) I've spoken with several active researchers working on AIDS, HIV,
and related areas, and his ideas have no basis in actual research any
more. Moreover, his theories have caused some African governments to
adopt wildly counterproductive policies that have increased the incidence
of AIDS in their populations.

~Chris

Dear Chris;
   
  It's always nice to know cranks - crackpots and kooks still exist. Isn't this a great country or what? Of course, the other problem is how do you cut off their expostulations so people won't suffer like they have in Africa because the various heads of African states are willing believers???
   
  Quandry - Quandry - Quandry!!!
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian
   
"Christopher R. Maden" <crism@...> wrote:
  Ron Getty wrote:

  A most interesting article describing a methodology to what causes HIV
as expostulated by a very experienced award winning microbiologist.

Duesberg is a crank.

His ideas were viable twenty years ago, but all of his predictions about
the spread of AIDS have been proven false. (Note, in particular, that
your summary is wrong - his major premise is that HIV does not cause
AIDS.) I've spoken with several active researchers working on AIDS, HIV,
and related areas, and his ideas have no basis in actual research any
more. Moreover, his theories have caused some African governments to
adopt wildly counterproductive policies that have increased the incidence
of AIDS in their populations.

~Chris

You are right about Duesberg. But the government of South Africa did not
just follow his ideas, President Mbeki used him to rationalize policies it
already had. Poor countries simply cannot provide the state-sponsored
health care which politicians love to offer, if that must include the
enormously expensive drugs to treat and prevent transmission of AIDS. With
infection rates up to 20%, "say it ain't so" is one government's response.
Although the left accuses industries of using junk science, governments can
hide behind junk science too.

News stories on AIDS, S Africa and V Duesberg:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,43510,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/africa/2000/aids_in_africa/
casestudy_sa.stm

Harland Harrison

Ron Getty wrote:

  It's always nice to know cranks - crackpots and kooks still exist. Isn't
this a great country or what? Of course, the other problem is how do you
cut off their expostulations so people won't suffer like they have in
Africa because the various heads of African states are willing
believers???

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. When someone forwards stuff from
Duesberg, I point out why he's completely and totally wrong, in the hopes
that they won't do it again, and that others who received it won't buy it.

Alternative science is a weird area for libertarians. Many of us just
don't trust "the establishment", political or otherwise, and are drawn
towards alternative medicine, alternative energy, alternative physics,
etc. Some of these have merit and some don't, and we need to be careful
to evaluate these independently of any establishment-based bias we may
feel. Otherwise, we end up on the Art Bell show.

~Chris

Dear Chris;
   
  So then getting radiated by a nuclear bomb blast is not the best method for living a longer life like a lot of the Japanese survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have done???
   
  This is postulated in: Underexposed - What If Radiation Is Actually Good For You? By Ed Hiserodt and available from Laissez Faire books. www.lfb.com
   
  Also would this also extend to electro-magnetism and the healing body as in bioelectric medicine?
   
  The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life by:
  Robert O. Becker, M.D., available at Amazon Books.
   
  The Body Electric: Electromagnetism And The Foundation Of Life: Becker, Robert, Selden, Gary: 9780688069711: Amazon.com: Books
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian
  
"Christopher R. Maden" <crism@...> wrote:
  Ron Getty wrote:

  It's always nice to know cranks - crackpots and kooks still exist. Isn't
this a great country or what? Of course, the other problem is how do you
cut off their expostulations so people won't suffer like they have in
Africa because the various heads of African states are willing
believers???

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. When someone forwards stuff from
Duesberg, I point out why he's completely and totally wrong, in the hopes
that they won't do it again, and that others who received it won't buy it.

Alternative science is a weird area for libertarians. Many of us just
don't trust "the establishment", political or otherwise, and are drawn
towards alternative medicine, alternative energy, alternative physics,
etc. Some of these have merit and some don't, and we need to be careful
to evaluate these independently of any establishment-based bias we may
feel. Otherwise, we end up on the Art Bell show.

~Chris

Dear Chris;
   
  So then getting radiated by a nuclear bomb blast is not the best method for living a longer life like a lot of the Japanese survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have done???
   
  This is postulated in: Underexposed - What If Radiation Is Actually Good For You? By Ed Hiserodt and available from Laissez Faire books. www.lfb.com
   
  Also would this also extend to electro-magnetism and the healing body as in bioelectric medicine?
   
  The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life by:
  Robert O. Becker, M.D., available at Amazon Books.
   
  The Body Electric: Electromagnetism And The Foundation Of Life: Becker, Robert, Selden, Gary: 9780688069711: Amazon.com: Books
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian
  
"Christopher R. Maden" <crism@...> wrote:
  Ron Getty wrote:

  It's always nice to know cranks - crackpots and kooks still exist. Isn't
this a great country or what? Of course, the other problem is how do you
cut off their expostulations so people won't suffer like they have in
Africa because the various heads of African states are willing
believers???

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. When someone forwards stuff from
Duesberg, I point out why he's completely and totally wrong, in the hopes
that they won't do it again, and that others who received it won't buy it.

Alternative science is a weird area for libertarians. Many of us just
don't trust "the establishment", political or otherwise, and are drawn
towards alternative medicine, alternative energy, alternative physics,
etc. Some of these have merit and some don't, and we need to be careful
to evaluate these independently of any establishment-based bias we may
feel. Otherwise, we end up on the Art Bell show.

~Chris

Ron Getty wrote:

  So then getting radiated by a nuclear bomb blast is not the best method
for living a longer life like a lot of the Japanese survivors of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki have done???

I am shocked (shocked I say) to learn that resilient people who survived
something that killed most of their neighbors have lived long lives.

Many of the record-holders for human longevity drink and/or smoke. Does
this mean that drinking and smoking make you live longer? Or does it mean
that people who are likely to live a long time are also likely to be more
resistant to the negative effects of tobacco and alcohol?

As I said before, any claim - from the establishment or from outside it -
must be evaluated independently. The difference is that lots of
scientists believe the establishment claims, and so you also have to ask
why they don't believe the non-establishment ones. As many evolutionary
biologists have pointed out to creationists, a scientist makes his
reputation by upsetting the applecart, not by propping it up; proving
radiation-based longevity, antigravity, intelligent design, or an absence
of global climate change would put a scientist into the history books.
This is, however, yet another good reason to get government out of the
science-funding business.

~Chris

Dear Chris;
   
  You wrote - This is, however, yet another good reason to get government out of the science-funding business.
   
  This should also apply to getting the government and our tax dollars completely out of the business of science!
   
  A good example of government meddling in science creating a really fine mess is the US Supreme Court case being heard right now to define "wet lands" and where they stop and start.
   
  The EPA definition is so broad property owners who have had migrating water birds land on their property have had whole chunks of land taken from being used because of the science definition of wetlands by the EPA.
   
  To get around this homeowners who have water on their property tear out cat tails as soon as they pop up. No cattails - hence no wetland. Other property owners have given into draining anything that looks like a pond. Others have literally shot and ate any water fowl landing on their property. The destruction of the plants and water have also destroyed other plant life as well.
   
  Unfortunately, because of the lamebrained EPA scientists and biologists definitions large sections of land and water are no longer there for water fowl.
   
  Hip Hip Hooray for the EPA and science funded by tax dollars.
   
  Ron Getty
  SF Libertarian
   
"Christopher R. Maden" <crism@...> wrote:
  Ron Getty wrote:

  So then getting radiated by a nuclear bomb blast is not the best method
for living a longer life like a lot of the Japanese survivors of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki have done???

I am shocked (shocked I say) to learn that resilient people who survived
something that killed most of their neighbors have lived long lives.

Many of the record-holders for human longevity drink and/or smoke. Does
this mean that drinking and smoking make you live longer? Or does it mean
that people who are likely to live a long time are also likely to be more
resistant to the negative effects of tobacco and alcohol?

As I said before, any claim - from the establishment or from outside it -
must be evaluated independently. The difference is that lots of
scientists believe the establishment claims, and so you also have to ask
why they don't believe the non-establishment ones. As many evolutionary
biologists have pointed out to creationists, a scientist makes his
reputation by upsetting the applecart, not by propping it up; proving
radiation-based longevity, antigravity, intelligent design, or an absence
of global climate change would put a scientist into the history books.
This is, however, yet another good reason to get government out of the
science-funding business.

~Chris